Is there something outside of Consciousness?

[Scholar]

When Curt Jaimungal proposed this possibility to him, I think Leo missed an oppurtunity to get to the core and essence of the issue. The way he attempted to resolve this was by actually engaging in the delusional framework that was being proposed. Instead of trying to convince Curt Jaimungal within that framework, I think it would have been far easier to make him understand the misframing of the entirety of his metaphysical understanding.

 

What Curt does not realize, and what Leo points out far too little because of how much of an intellectual he is, is the fact that the very essence and being of "Outsidedness" itself is part of the illusion, part of what Leo would call imagination. Outsidedness and Withinness here is not realized to be merely one dimension of existence, but rather it is treated as if it was Essential to the Ground of Being. Curt is missing that what he uses to engage with Truth itself is itself completely delusiory, that he confuses something that is manifested from the Groundless Ground as the Ground itself.

Basically Curt proposes some sort of underlying Metalogic, which somehow escapes Being, with is more fundamental than Being, which is what gives rise to Being. Leo simply had to point out and clearly identify this mistake in perception. That the metalogic that Curt is too unaware to even realize he is assuming, is itself something that is manifest through the Groundless Ground. That Outsideness and Withinness are nothing but one aspect of Being, like the colors black and white.

 

 

The fundamental problem here is that Consciousness is assumed to be some sort of Subject thing, something that lies in contrast to something else. An Object of Being, rather than the fundamental Ground(lessness) of Being. That Outsidedness and Withinness are somehow more fundamental than Consciousness.

 

Curt does not realize the outragous nature of this because he is referring to something completely different when he talks about Consciousness. His notions of it are embedded in a framework which his mind is unable to see past, as it is from that vantage point that he himself perceives existence. He in that sense is the ventage point, he is the framework. Which is why it is impossible to teach him. For realization to take place, Curt himself must fundamentally change, because his Nature is what determines the Reality of his Existence.

[Purple Man]

@Scholar Curt is extremely open minded and he´ll get somewhere soon, but the jump from being open to new paradigms to start functioning from them is huge. And the very base of scientific materialism is that all of Reality, all that has objective properties, is a consequence of a more refined object, a primal "something" that somehow stands beyond the rest of "objects".

The (hilarious, if not sad) attempt to understand reality making particles crash in huge colliders as if they were to find that holy object within "common matter"  is the epitome of it, but the very act of trying to explain Consciousness as an epiphenomenon of the brain,like it´s not an appearence in Consciousness is more than enough to see how far from the right path most of them are.


 

Edited September 6, 2021 by Purple Man