Question About Free Will

[somenathpal]

Hi All,

I am confused about not having free will. What exactly mean that we don't have free will ? For example I decided to ask the question in the forum . Is it not my free will to do so? Does it mean I am driven by some bigger thing ? How can I experience that I do or do not have free will? How to  realize the truth here ?

Please throw some light in this area 

 

[ajasatya]

sit quietly and try to find, in your field of awareness, this thing that makes choices.

the illusory nature of the ego makes you see others as separate beings such as yourself. also it makes you feel as if you were in control.

if you let go of delusion, you may find yourself in a dream controlled by a big mind. and "you" and "others" are just means for this big mind to feel itself, to experience itself.

big mind, higher self, god, buddha nature, pure consciousness, krishna, the void, the tao, whatever you want to call it.

[Swede]

Your body is a biological machine and all the actions taken by this machine can be explained by the laws of physics.

You experience you are the one taking these decisions and actions, but in reality you are not. Your body has already taken the decision for an action before you yourself experience the feeling of taking decision and action.

I read this in a science magazine many years ago.

So I think your body has its own destiny, and you can enjoy the ride of life and see where it takes you.

[somenathpal]

Okay . If I don't have free will then how I am 100% responsible for my life ? Is it not contradicting? One hand I know that I am  responsible for  everything in my life on the other hand I don't have free will to do anything how both are true? What am I missing here ?

Edited December 8, 2016 by somenathpal

[ajasatya]

@somenathpal you're still confused, mixing the relative and the absolute perspectives. quit intellectual reasoning. you have to go beyond that. far beyond.

do the job. there's no shortcut. zazen takes you straight to IT, but it might take a while. maybe some years. do you want the Truth? i cannot give it to you. nobody can give it to you. no words can express it.

the price for the Truth is higher than you may consider.

[Frogfucius]

What difference does it make in your life if you have free will or not? Why do you care to know? Life goes on as it was before.

You don't actually have free will, because no action or thought you have is independent from nature. Your brain does not create its own thoughts, nor do the brain neurons fire up on their own. The input is the universe/reality/whatever, the output is your thoughts and actions. "You" are an expression of the physical universe around you.

Does it really make any difference though? Don't get hung up on something like this. It's something you have to experience on your own.

[Leo Gura]

@somenathpal Here's a very simple exercise: sit down on your couch, get comfy, set aside 60 minutes, and now start to curl your index finger open and closed. And as you do that, start wondering, "What is curling that finger?" Drop all ideas or scientific theories. Only pay attention to DIRECT EXPERIENCE. ZERO theorizing or speculating! ZERO beliefs.

Take a close look at what DIRECT EXPERIENCE reveals. You may be surprised.

[somenathpal]

@Leo Gura Just one more question before I stop pestering . You asked me to do that exercise. Now I can choose to do or choose not to do . suppose I choose to do . Then is it  not that  I am making the decision ? If I am making decision to chose one path given n number of paths how I don't have free will to choose ?

Also if I am not choosing how can I 100% responsible for my actions ? I am sorry if I am asking pointless questions. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by somenathpal

[Leo Gura]

@somenathpal You're not making any decisions because you are an illusion! There is not even a you who's reading this very sentence.

Sit down and discover that for yourself.

[somenathpal]

@Leo Gura So if I am not making decision  as I am produced by ego then how I am responsible 100% for my life?  Who is making decision here ? Is it happening automatically with out any control ?

 In your videos when you say you are 100% responsible who is the "you" in that context ?    When you say "you" are 100%  responsible for everything in your life , how can it be true when "I" do not exists ? 

[Leo Gura]

@somenathpal To reconcile that, you have to get at least a taste of enlightenment. You can't reconcile that through logic.

For practical purposes, just assume that you're 100% responsible for everything, but you don't exist and have no free will.

[somenathpal]

Okay . Thanks every one .

[LetTheNewDayBegin]

Hi! I'm also as confused as somenathpal. And I'm not yet satisfied with the answers given here.

Let me maybe summarize what I see, as these things I believe are subtle. Please tell me if you agree or not, as it is a different view.

Firstly, there is an illusion of self, there is an illusion of free will, but there is also awareness, which is not an illusion.

This awareness is "trapped" in this self, therefore it has become itself just a partial awareness (aware only to an extent of the self), or has it?

Secondly, the enligthenment breaks the chains put by self upon the awareness, but even after enligthenment, the self remains... and it still compartmentalizes the awareness! So as it turns out it was the self that got enligthened and not the awareness. Awareness has always been enligthened, it's just that the illusory self has gained direct insight about its very own nature.

To conclude, with the unbounded awereness, as the name suggests, there is no separation, thus there is no self.  Without the self-separation there is no free will, because thre is no agent capable of doing anything, as the awareness is everything it has nothing other to act upon!

But then, from the construct of mind, the great illusionist, a self appears. And with that illusion, the miracle happens, you gain free will. There now is something other, something that can be acted upon. You're now free to explore. You're now free to experience the fruit of the unbounded universe. You're the spaceship for the awareness, a spaceship created to experience itself in its manifestation. Rejoice!

[Leo Gura]

@LetTheNewDayBegin Awareness is not trapped in the self. The self is an illusion within awareness.

Self doesn't remain because it never existed in the first place. The self can NEVER become enlightened because enlightenment is the awareness of no-self.

Free will isn't a miracle. It's an illusion (of control) which causes all your suffering and separates you from Truth.

Ask yourself this: Why do you want free will? If you have it, you can never be happy, because it means you must always be on-guard.

Nonduality is a path of surrendering control.

This whole issue is one of power and control. You -- ego -- wants to think it controls stuff. But in fact it doesn't. And to believe that you do control stuff is the chief delusion that causes your suffering. So when you gonna wise up and give up the game? I mean... you can keep seeking power, but at some point you're gonna realize (hopefully) that the greatest power is total surrender.

THE WHOLE PURPOSE OF THE SELF IS TO CONTROL STUFF!

(But it always fails in the end.) So you're playing a game you cannot ever win.

[Ry4n]

Hey @Leo Gura have you read free will by sam harris? He takes a sort of scientific approach to disproving free will through brain scans, and also mentioned that the illusion of free will and the illusion of the self are 2 sides of the same coin.

[LetTheNewDayBegin]

@Leo Gura, thanks! Somehow I cannot let go of free will. I need to find out why. It's not about control or power.
Maybe it's about creation or contribution. I'll try the surrendering path for a bit. I'll get back to you.

Edited December 8, 2016 by LetTheNewDayBegin

[jse]

I wouldn't be too concerned about free will... go for the expensive or pay-as-you-go will.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, LetTheNewDayBegin said:

@Leo Gura, thanks! Somehow I cannot let go of free will. I need to find out why. It's not about control or power.
Maybe it's about creation or contribution. I'll try the surrendering path for a bit. I'll get back to you.

Hint: it's about control and power

[jse]

10 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Hint: it's about control and power

It always cracks me up when I hear "I won't try drugs because I [don't want / can't / am afraid / etc] to lose control"...

[Martin123]

The whole concept of free will just doesn't make sense.
The whole philosophical debate, determinism vs. free will, I literally don't understand how those often intelligent and educated people be talking about it.
It is a complete NONSENSE.
They're just words holy shit. When I say "I have free will, and everything is predetermined", it is not a contradiction. They don't exclude each other.
The concept of free will and determinism are completely outside of reality. They are just random thoughts. Not different from thoughts about sex, weather and food.