The Absurdity of Objects (please read this, amazing realization)

[Javfly33]

I started to wonder if a ROCK has A POV.

And i have come to the conclusions, that there are only TWO POSSIBILITIES

1-. A rock has a POV on its own (its Alive in its own way). Consciousness is emanating/creating the Rock and experiencing therefore the personal POV of the Rock.

2-. The Rock does NOT have a pov. In that case (attention here), then the rock does NOT even exist. Why? Because if the rock existed, It would have to be "existing" constantly (aka: having a POV on its own) Not just when you look at It! if It ONLY exists when you look at It, (aka, It doesnt have a Pov on its own) then it doesnt exist. You are creating It with your Consciousness...

 

I mean Choose your poison: 1) or 2) ??‍♂️ i Dont know What IS true of them But its clear to me that either all possible POVs exist (option 1) or either only 1 POV exist. (Option 2)

If solipsism IS not true , then its clear the 1) option must be the truth. ? 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Javfly33

[Tim R]

There is no such thing as POV and nothing "has" a POV.

[Someone here]

It's simpler than that. The rock isn't sentient so it has no pov. But it does exist even when you are not looking at it.  

[LastThursday]

For the rock to exist, it has to be differentiated from everything else (not-rock). Consciousness does this job of differentiation. This is dualism. So if there's a POV then it's within the consciousness in which the rock exists. A rock continues to exist when not being observed, because it isn't in fact separate from everything else.

It's like a hologram, all "objects" exist within the hologram at all times, but consciousness "moves around" the image to reveal (i.e. differentiate) different objects. Technically, information in one part of the image is spread over the whole hologram.  But extending the analogy, consciousness itself is also the hologram. Consciousness works at very many levels, some less aware than others.

Consciousness can split itself into many islands of higher awareness (people). We all share the same consciousness or POV if you like.

[Javfly33]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

I But it does exist even when you are not looking at it.  

Of course, But as an IDEA!!!!

[impulse9]

According to shamanic traditions, everything is alive, including rocks. The POV of the rock is simply so different to yours than you could never envision what it's like to be one. You'd have to literally be a rock to understand. Salvia tends to show its users what it's like to be inanimate objects. Not that I recommend using it.

[Mulky]

It's weird to say the rock has a POV to me, because it's thinking of the rock as 1 thing, like we usually think of people.  The rock is a rock, 2 halves of rocks, a billion tiny pieces of rocks, all the cells, whatever, you can look at it however you want, making it 1 thing is just done through thinking of it as 1 thing.  So how could it have like 1 perspective, like a rock looking at you.  If that was the case, there would be an infinite number of those perspectives happening, cause 1 rock is also howevery many smaller rocks making it up split up in as many ways as you want.  So how could there be like an observer associated with the rock like that, I just can't wrap my head around that.

I also have trouble wrapping my head around the idea of consciousness doing things, being things, etc.  Anything that does anything or creates things etc is phenomena, it's on some level an object, not consciousness.  Consciousness isn't a thing,   Even if the rock "had" a pov, the rock still wouldn't exist because the rock would still not be the pov itself, and so would not ever really exist.  If it's not the actual pov, its association with the pov just happens to seem to be the case at the time, because they are not synonymous they will not be able to called the same thing, like your body and the experience of life.  They happen to seem to be going on at the same time right now, but we know that won't always be the case, they are not synonymous.  These are my semi confused ramblings on this subject.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Mulky

[impulse9]

You think humans have a single POV? You can experience the world from a billion points from your body alone, that's without even going into pure mental states. You can concentrate on one point on your left leg and if you do it for long enough you will start to experience reality through that point alone. The mind is much, much more powerful than you probably realize.

[Breakingthewall]

I would say yes. imagine there is a big bang and something emerges out of nothingness. the idea of "things", protons, elementary particles, forces, physical laws. all this to form a rock. an entity of enormous complexity. the universe is that rock, half a meter, let's say. a divine rock. manifested existence. so yes, it has a pov

[Dazgwny]

It’s a difficult one this one I havnt quite grasped yet. To say POV suggests some form of thinking mind, which a rock clearly doesn’t have. So a rock isn’t just sat there on the road thinking I’m a rock. No sense of self, not a conscious agent. So in the sense we think of a POV that sentient beings have, a rock definitely doesn’t have one. 
But on the other hand, there’s a structure to a rock, it has an energetic structure to it, it’s made up of atoms, minerals or what have ya. So I would imagine that consciousness would have to take on that particular structure, from within. Therefore actually being a rock. The POV not being that of a knowing POV like a being, but of a particular feeling of energy type thing. Feeling seems like the wrong word. Like just some kind of condensed energy. But consciousness would have to be that rock, for the rock to be. I’m totally speculating here. Personally no experience but i have contemplated it. I’d suggest that those who have taken salvia may have more of an idea on this subject. A lot of them report becoming a particular object. Leo’s mentioned coffee table a lot in the past, and I saw someone on the forum a while back talking about becoming a Pepsi can?. So I’d guess there’s very likely something in it. Ive no doubt it’s discoverable though if you can go deep enough 

[impulse9]

So, this is a pretty good Salvia trip report. He specifically talks about transforming into an inanimate object and living a "life" as one. Having experienced something fairly similar on Salvia I can tell you this ain't bullshit. Its mindfucks you to an extreme degree. This is why most people aren't fans of the experience. But this can give you some insight into this topic from the perspective of the post-rational, rather than rational, naive reductionism.

 

 

[Dazgwny]

25 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

So, this is a pretty good Salvia trip report. He specifically talks about transforming into an inanimate object and living a "life" as one. Having experienced something fairly similar on Salvia I can tell you this ain't bullshit. Its mindfucks you to an extreme degree. This is why most people aren't fans of the experience. But this can give you some insight into this topic from the perspective of the post-rational, rather than rational, naive reductionism.

 

 

That is terrifyingly interesting