The Masculine and Feminine ALWAYS go Together

[Emerald]

43 minutes ago, SamC said:

@Emerald

Is the opposite true aswell, that you by repressing your masculinity repress your femininity? 

Also, is it possible that you as a man can repress your masculine side aswell? How does that look like? I know that I for example still repress my feminie side by disowning it but that I also at the same time reject my masculine side.

It feels like I am both repressing my feminine side and masculine side. How does one solve both if that exists? Thoughts?

Yes, if you repress your masculine side, your feminine will also take a hit. The masculine and feminine are like conjoined twins.

But yes…. anyone can repress either or both sides of their polarity. And the symptoms are similar for repressing a certain polarity, regardless of gender. For example, I used to repress my femininity so much. And I see a lot of my past self’s neuroses in men who are currently repressing.

And for both, the solution is to find the root of the resistance and drop it.

For some, the root may be core beliefs like, “If I am feminine then women won’t like me.” Or “Men are all predatory and only want one thing” Or “If I show my emotions, I am weak.”

For others, the root can come from past traumas and protection mechanisms.

[Emerald]

35 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Why is there no thread about women repressing their masculine stuff...

In case you’re genuinely interested… Et voila…

But the reason why I didn’t post the other such thread is because the women on here don’t generally have an issue with masculine integration.

In order for women to be interested in Leo’s content at all, she’d likely be fairly well acquainted with her masculine side… more than the average woman. 

But you can look on here and see that 80% of the guys on here are really struggling under the weight of feminine repression.

[Alysssa]

Man: I want to find the truth, I want to be free. spiritual  and blah blah blahvdhbkdjbkszcv

God: So push this door and you'll be

man: Yak it's a pink door, I hate pink, It's not masculine!!!!!!! I am a man, are you kidding me? I'm not going to do it

 

 

 

 

[Emerald]

32 minutes ago, Roy said:

Solid post @Emerald. I'd love to see how the radical social progressives would react to it though , you know with the non-binary crowd and "gender/sexuality doesn't exist" attitude and all. Perhaps I don't understand it enough but the kind of stuff you're talking about here doesn't seem to square with the recent ideologies springing up. Just curious if you've experienced any resistance.  What have been your encounters with them if you've had any?

I’m sure that Terfs wouldn’t like it too much. They’re the ones that are all about gender not being real. But they use that “gender isn’t real” rhetoric mostly to be shitty to trans people, so I don’t mind their outrage.

But non-binary people are not Terfs. Non-binary doesn’t mean that they believe that gender doesn’t exist. Non-binary people just feel like the label of male and female doesn’t fit them accurately. They feel more comfortable in themselves by shucking those identities.

They also belong to the LGBTQ community, which is a community all about embracing different intonations of human sexuality and gender.

So, if there is a group (like Terfs) that believes that gender doesn’t exist, it means they’re crapping on others’ gender identities and will probably be deeply unpopular with many members of the LGBTQ community. 

But I personally am of the mindset that the widespread acceptance of the LGBTQ community is one of the most liberating things we have begun to achieve as a human species. Not only is it liberating for the LGBTQ community… it also liberates straight, cisgender, and gender conforming people to integrate their opposite polarities more deeply and with less shame.

And this newfound fluidity with sexuality and gender will help us integrate the feminine deeper into our currently masculine principled society.

But what must be understood is that every person contains a natural masculine/feminine signature.

And while most people’s masculine/feminine signature skews more towards the polarity typically associated withtheir sex at birth… some will have a more equal balance of masculine/feminine in them and others will have it skew more towards the opposite polarity of the energy most typically relates to their sex assigned at birth. This masculine/feminine signature also runs along the the sexual instinct. So, you could potentially have a person who’s very gender conforming in their overall signature… but still primarily have same sex attractions.

So there is nothing in what I’m saying that contradicts or invalidates these identities. In fact, the masculine and feminine in all things explains how there can be so much variety with regard the spectrums of human gender and sexuality.

But some people might get upset about it because they feel I’m being heteronormative or stereotyping as I do have to paint with somewhat broad strokes to get my point across.

[Nos7algiK]

18 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I’m sure that Terfs wouldn’t like it too much.

What is a Terf if you don't mind me asking?

 

18 minutes ago, Emerald said:

But I personally am of the mindset that the widespread acceptance of the LGBTQ community is one of the most liberating things we have begun to achieve as a human species.

I wholeheartedly agree here. I'm an ally to the LGBTQ community and believe it's important others see the importance of accepting others for the identity they align with. Though, I still accepted the bigoted regardless there has been massive growth in the direction of acceptance. Though, my philosophical beliefs largely remove labels within reality itself. I understand that I'm an outlier with these beliefs and others have their own set of beliefs on who they are and I find it very important to honor them without criticism of their choice. Outside of this forum and talking to my partner there is no need to state non-dual ways to others. It would be disrespectful in my eyes.

[soos_mite_ah]

@Emerald @Roy As far as nonbinary and gender fluid people go, I know a few and for the most part the general vibe I get from them is that while they think that gender isn't fixed, they still do believe that things like masculinity and femininity as well as how you choose to express them are still very much real. It's just that masculinity and femininity don't line up with male and female in a super clean cut way. That can translate into different ways of expressing your gender or feeling like your gender falls in a spectrum or isn't in a spectrum. I don't think they would disagree with Emerald. If anything, I can see them agreeing. 

**Note: I can't speak for nonbinary or gender fluid people and I only know a handful of them. I'm coming at this based on the conversations I've had with these individuals as well as me looking into this whole thing and taking my interpretations on it. This is not rooted in direct experience and there is only so much that I can say.  

 

[Emerald]

46 minutes ago, Nos7algiK said:

What is a Terf if you don't mind me asking?

Terf stands for “Trans Exclusive Radical Feminist”… basically Feminists that are bigoted towards trans-folk.

But Terfs don’t call themselves that. That’s what non-Terfs call them.

They call themselves “Gender Critical” Feminists… meaning critical of gender’s existence.

They believe that gender isn’t real and that no one has a gender.

They believe that people only have a certain type of body. 

So, you have male-bodied people and female-bodied people but no gender identity.

They believe that all notions of gender are 100% made up for the express purpose of oppressing women.

And they have a very black and white world view where all male-bodied people are inherently predatory and all female-bodied people are inherently the victims of male-bodied people.

And they view trans-women as male-bodied people who are using their trans identity to sneak around and be predatory toward female-bodied people.

And trans-men are just female bodied people who have gone into denial about their victimization at the hands of male-bodied people and use the trans identity to avoid predation by male-bodied people.

So, they’re very anti-man. But trans-women get the lion’s share of their ire.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Emerald

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, soos_mite_ah said:

@Emerald @Roy As far as nonbinary and gender fluid people go, I know a few and for the most part the general vibe I get from them is that while they think that gender isn't fixed, they still do believe that things like masculinity and femininity as well as how you choose to express them are still very much real. It's just that masculinity and femininity don't line up with male and female in a super clean cut way. That can translate into different ways of expressing your gender or feeling like your gender falls in a spectrum or isn't in a spectrum. I don't think they would disagree with Emerald. If anything, I can see them agreeing. 

**Note: I can't speak for nonbinary or gender fluid people and I only know a handful of them. I'm coming at this based on the conversations I've had with these individuals as well as me looking into this whole thing and taking my interpretations on it. This is not rooted in direct experience and there is only so much that I can say.  

 

That’s the way that I understand it too. My friend Bunny identifies as non-binary, and she’s quite feminine. It’s just that the label of woman doesn’t resonate with her.

[Johnny Galt]

Great discourse! 

The hermetic principles. There's 7. The 7th principle is gender.

"Gender is in everything; everything has its Masculine and Feminine Principles; Gender manifests on all planes" (the all is mind)

Then consider the 4th Principle, "Polarity". "Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites."

For me, this speaks to yin and yang, but then again, many other cultures, they had symbols and teachings which spoke to these universal laws too. 

The 2nd Principle, "Correspondence", "As above, so below; as below, so above". 

 

[Emerald]

Just now, Johnny Galt said:

Great discourse! 

The hermetic principles. There's 7. The 7th principle is gender.

"Gender is in everything; everything has its Masculine and Feminine Principles; Gender manifests on all planes" (the all is mind)

Then consider the 4th Principle, "Polarity". "Everything is Dual; everything has poles; everything has its pair of opposites."

For me, this speaks to yin and yang, but then again, many other cultures, they had symbols and teachings which spoke to these universal laws too. 

The 2nd Principle, "Correspondence", "As above, so below; as below, so above". 

 

Yes! I’ve been considering for a while to do a video series on practical applications for the 7 Hermetic Principles. 

I had mentioned earlier in the thread a derivative axiom from “as above, so below”… which is “as within, so without.”

I mentioned it in relation to how men with a disintegrated feminine side play the internal drama outward in their interactions with women.

But with “as above, so below”, we can (if we’ve had awakenings) look at how the experience of source in one of its facets is quite androgynous with feminine and masculine components.

And we and everything else in this matrix mirrors the dance of God’s feminine and masculine sides.

So, the God is above and we are below.

But we can also look to lesser macrocosms of that axiom. And we can recognize society as the above and us again as the below.

And in this, we can see how both society and the individual mirror their feminine repressions playing out the same patterns of resistance on larger and smaller scales.

And we can see the way it naturally plays out when we have the sensitivity to observe Yin and Yang in its aligned form. And this can help us drop our resistances as individuals and as a society at large.

[Nos7algiK]

@EmeraldThank you for clarifying. That's a pretty radical belief to uphold. A part of me feels bad for anyone who thinks like that, but I'm going to assume holding a mindset like that causes great suffering to others. Many of these people are just as hateful if not more than that at which they think they are combating.

It's also extremally counter-productive when males see females with radical beliefs such as that in helping the male perspective become a "friend" of the female perspective as a whole. Though, I do suppose these people are far and few between.

[Surfingthewave]

What's interesting about this discussion is if you break it right down. What is masculinity and femininity and where have these constructs come from? 

Yes I agree with the need to integrate the two but why should something be masculine or feminine?

Being part of the LGBT+ community throws a lot of these assumptions out. Depending on what culture, religion, background, ethnicity, country, sexuality and upbringing the masculine and feminine binary moves between polarities. 

Gender, like sexuality is a spectrum yes but who says what's masculine and what's feminine. These are all concepts in the eye of the beholder. I don't wake up feeling a bit more masculine due to integration. It is part of who I am. As I'm sure other men may want to integrate their feminine sides from doing inner work may feel resistance based on societal pressures to be a "real" man. But where has all these come from? 

Who says masculinity has certain traits and femininity has the opposite?

One of the reasons both genders struggle in these topics is because of identification and perception based on the backdrop of millenia where gender roles are assumed and seen as binary.

Edited September 5, 2021 by Surfingthewave

[Jacob Morres]

@Surfingthewave def large part of it is social conditioning. I can notice it in myself. Some stuff I only picked up recently and I noticed they were just a societal construction. 

Like I didn't even know some of them existed until a few weeks ago so they have such little influence on me

Like some people are only into people who fit into a certain gender role. But that role is just a societal construction lmao. 

Great post though I learned a lot and I highly resonated

Another point for me atm is a relationship is just loving them just as they are outside of gender roles. To me that feels more fulfilling then these arbitrary societal constructions 

Edited September 5, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Gesundheit2]

16 minutes ago, Surfingthewave said:

Who says masculinity has certain traits and femininity has the opposite?

Survival.

[SriSriJustinBieber]

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna, who is a man (or male god depending on one's beliefs) says: "I am the feminine qualities: beauty, perfect speech, memory, intelligence, loyalty, forgiveness"

In the Law of One, Ra says: "The body is a creature of the mind’s creation. It has its biases. The biological bias must be first completely understood and then the opposite bias allowed to find full expression in understanding. Again, the process of acceptance of the body as a balanced, as well as polarized, individual may then be accomplished. It is then the task to extend this understanding to the bodies of the other-selves whom you will meet. The simplest example of this is the understanding that each biological male is female; each biological female is male. This is a simple example."

In Tao Te Ching we find written:

"Hold your male side with your female side
Hold your bright side with your dull side
Hold your high side with your low side

Then you will be able to hold the whole world
When the opposing forces unite within there comes a power abundant in its giving
and unerring in its effect
Flowing through everything It returns one to the First Breath
Guiding everything It returns one to No Limits
Embracing everything It returns one to the Uncarved Block
When the block is divided it becomes something useful and leaders can rule with a
few pieces of it

But the Sage holds the block complete
Holding all things within himself he preserves the Great Unity which cannot be ruled or divided"

Not to mention of course Carl Jung's work which @Emerald does a great job at making intelligible.

[Tudo]

3 hours ago, Jacob Morres said:

@Surfingthewave def large part of it is social conditioning. I can notice it in myself. Some stuff I only picked up recently and I noticed they were just a societal construction. 

Like I didn't even know some of them existed until a few weeks ago so they have such little influence on me

Like some people are only into people who fit into a certain gender role. But that role is just a societal construction lmao. 

Great post though I learned a lot and I highly resonated

Another point for me atm is a relationship is just loving them just as they are outside of gender roles. To me that feels more fulfilling then these arbitrary societal constructions 

I think It varies a lot from people to people .

Edited September 5, 2021 by Tudo

[Tudo]

2 hours ago, SriSriJustinBieber said:

In the Bhagavad Gita, Krishna, who is a man (or male god depending on one's beliefs) says: "I am the feminine qualities: beauty, perfect speech, memory, intelligence, loyalty, forgiveness"

In the Law of One, Ra says: "The body is a creature of the mind’s creation. It has its biases. The biological bias must be first completely understood and then the opposite bias allowed to find full expression in understanding. Again, the process of acceptance of the body as a balanced, as well as polarized, individual may then be accomplished. It is then the task to extend this understanding to the bodies of the other-selves whom you will meet. The simplest example of this is the understanding that each biological male is female; each biological female is male. This is a simple example."

In Tao Te Ching we find written:

"Hold your male side with your female side
Hold your bright side with your dull side
Hold your high side with your low side

Then you will be able to hold the whole world
When the opposing forces unite within there comes a power abundant in its giving
and unerring in its effect
Flowing through everything It returns one to the First Breath
Guiding everything It returns one to No Limits
Embracing everything It returns one to the Uncarved Block
When the block is divided it becomes something useful and leaders can rule with a
few pieces of it

But the Sage holds the block complete
Holding all things within himself he preserves the Great Unity which cannot be ruled or divided"

Not to mention of course Carl Jung's work which @Emerald does a great job at making intelligible.

Interesting.

[Emerald]

8 hours ago, Surfingthewave said:

What's interesting about this discussion is if you break it right down. What is masculinity and femininity and where have these constructs come from? 

Yes I agree with the need to integrate the two but why should something be masculine or feminine?

Being part of the LGBT+ community throws a lot of these assumptions out. Depending on what culture, religion, background, ethnicity, country, sexuality and upbringing the masculine and feminine binary moves between polarities. 

Gender, like sexuality is a spectrum yes but who says what's masculine and what's feminine. These are all concepts in the eye of the beholder. I don't wake up feeling a bit more masculine due to integration. It is part of who I am. As I'm sure other men may want to integrate their feminine sides from doing inner work may feel resistance based on societal pressures to be a "real" man. But where has all these come from? 

Who says masculinity has certain traits and femininity has the opposite?

One of the reasons both genders struggle in these topics is because of identification and perception based on the backdrop of millenia where gender roles are assumed and seen as binary.

Masculine and feminine are not just social constructs. Though there are notions of masculinity and femininity that are purely a product of culture.

For example, the idea that pink is a feminine color is purely a social construct. Or the idea that women wear make up is purely a social construct.

But there is a consistency across cultures and eras with regard to the archetypal masculine and feminine… which supersedes but informs human gender.

And this consistency comes about because, on one level, all things in the cosmos is an interplay between Yin and Yang which are two polar subtle qualities. And the way human beings most readily understand Yin and Yang is through the archetypal masculine and feminine.

I used to believe that masculinity and femininity were just social constructs, until I had some awakenings where I was sensitive enough to pick up on these qualities.

A good rule of thumb to understand the nature of the masculine and feminine is to look at its associated elements.

The masculine is more akin to the elements air and fire. The masculine has no substance on its own but can enact itself upon substances and have a transformative effect.

The feminine is more akin to the elements of Earth and water. And so, the feminine has substance but no transformation without something acting upon it. And the overwhelming energy of the Earth is feminine, which is reflected universally in all cultures.

The qualities of the masculine include intellect, ambition, movement, and the tendency of human beings to transform Mother Nature to fit its needs and whims.

The qualities of the feminine include emotion, acceptance, stillness, and the tendency of human beings to accept and respect the workings of Mother Nature.

And you’ll notice that this doesn’t have a lot to do with human gender. The masculine and feminine are not primarily concerned with the gender expressions humanity… though this does impact that domain just as it impacts all domains.

[Emerald]

12 hours ago, Nos7algiK said:

@EmeraldThank you for clarifying. That's a pretty radical belief to uphold. A part of me feels bad for anyone who thinks like that, but I'm going to assume holding a mindset like that causes great suffering to others. Many of these people are just as hateful if not more than that at which they think they are combating.

It's also extremally counter-productive when males see females with radical beliefs such as that in helping the male perspective become a "friend" of the female perspective as a whole. Though, I do suppose these people are far and few between.

Yes, that becomes an issue. 

It’s the whole idea that plays out with the Crusades and killing in the name of Christ.

They saw non-Christians as bad. So, in their minds, it was good to kill and torture them.

It’s the lack of empathy and the demonization of the other, all wrapped in an ideological blanket of righteousness, that enables those who think they’re doing something valiant and good to actually be doing really shitty things.

[SamC]

17 hours ago, Emerald said:

For some, the root may be core beliefs like, “If I am feminine then women won’t like me.” Or “Men are all predatory and only want one thing” Or “If I show my emotions, I am weak.”

 I have a question, but which needs a build up...

Take the following anecdoteical scenario.

If a man where to constantly emotionally abuse a woman, the woman would reject the man and run away. She is forced to distance herself from the man because otherwise she would be in danger. The masculine energy is in this scenario not capable to create a shell for the feminie to be itself in.

The woman in this scenario is in other words disowned by the masculine by the emotional abuse/ neglect and is now forced to provide on her own. The masculine energy has pushed her away which made her run even further away to avoid the dangerous " masculine energy". She is not one with the masculine anymore and therefor must separate herself from the masculine to be safe. What's interesting however is that when the feminine ( the woman) is doing that, she is simultaneously rejecting the man by distancing herself from the masculine because it is dangerous, thus creating more separation.

Does this mean that the feminine also must learn to see the masculine perspective in order for the relationship within the parts of the ego to heal, or is the work only in integrating the feminine side which then will make the feminine side more comfortable with the masculine? Is it possible to integrate the feminine side without considering and providing love for the masculine side at the same time? Can one have a good relationship with the feminine if the the feminine also pushes the masculine away?

@Emerald