Mom refuses to acknowledge that she hurts me (and gets mad at me on top of that).

[somegirl]

Her inconsiderate actions sometimes hurt me and when I voice that to her, she just dismisses my hurt feelings and tells me I'm the crazy one for being upset over such "minor" thing (everything I get upset about she minimizes and invalidates and calls it a "minor thing"). She won't try to understand. 

And on top of that, when I get even more hurt that she called me crazy just because I voiced my feelings to her, she gets angry at me and doubles down even more. Eventually it escalates and she storms out of the room usually with the comment that she is so busy with other things and that I'm "too difficult to deal with". After that, she gives me silent treatment until I approach her eventually. Which I won't, this time. I am honestly sick of this. 

As you can imagine, this hurts to no end. I don't know how to deal with her.

I can't move, it's not that simple. I'm still in college. And besides that, I try so hard to maintain good relations with her, I help around the house, surprise her with meals, clean etc... And still, she has this toxic careless attitude towards me. 

[flowboy]

21 minutes ago, somegirl said:

she just dismisses my hurt feelings and tells me I'm the crazy one for being upset over such "minor" thing

Gaslighting. Classy.

 

21 minutes ago, somegirl said:

Eventually it escalates and she storms out of the room usually with the comment that she is so busy with other things and that I'm "too difficult to deal with". After that, she gives me silent treatment until I approach her eventually. Which I won't, this time. I am honestly sick of this. 

Ugh. I'm so sorry you are having to deal with this. Everyone deserves an emotionally mature pair of parents.

 

21 minutes ago, somegirl said:

And besides that, I try so hard to maintain good relations with her, I help around the house, surprise her with meals, clean etc...

Have you also developed people-pleasing behaviors in your other relationships? Sacrificing and forgetting about your own needs? Being attracted to people who are emotionally dismissive in similar ways? Not knowing what you truly want, within yourself, or knowing it but being paralysed to act on it?

If not, congratulations. Most people would.

 

I'm not even going to go into the topic of how to change this dynamic, because you tried that, and she didn't want to change. So there's no hope of changing your mom. What you should focus on, in my opinion, is healing yourself from the damage that she already did, to prevent you from playing out similar dynamics in your future relationships, and passing it on to your children eventually.

 

My recommendation: save up 2000 and do Puja Lepp's primal therapy retreat. I've done it, I've gotten my friends and partner to do it, I've met friends there, and we absolutely love it. It's the best tool for really kickstarting the process of being free from all the patterns and dysfunction that our parents put on us.

She should really pay me for all the times I've recommended it.

Edited September 4, 2021 by flowboy

[somegirl]

23 minutes ago, flowboy said:

Have you also developed people-pleasing behaviors in your other relationships? Sacrificing and forgetting about your own needs? Being attracted to people who are emotionally dismissive in similar ways?

If not, congratulations. Most people would.

Honestly, I was such a people pleaser in the past and have paid the price for it before, but as I've stepped into self-development, I'm not as much as before. I think I'm more in danger to become a bitter person than anything else. 

I'm honestly doing these house chores just to keep her happy, and not in a bad mood. Because once she is in a bad mood, she drags everyone else down in the house. And is generally nasty and on the edge to start a fight with anyone who is nearby. 
 

23 minutes ago, flowboy said:

My recommendation: save up 2000 and do Puja Lepp's primal therapy retreat. I've done it, I've gotten my friends and partner to do it, I've met friends there, and we absolutely love it. It's the best tool for really kickstarting the process of being free from all the patterns and dysfunction that our parents put on us.

This sounds promising. Is there an online option of this retreat? Because I live in Eastern Europe. 
 

Edited September 4, 2021 by somegirl

[flowboy]

5 minutes ago, somegirl said:

This sounds promising. Is there an online option of this retreat? Because I live in Eastern Europe. 

It wouldn't work as an online option. The unique concept works so well, because you are in a group, physically healing together from the same kind of stuff. Builds great bonds, too.

I think if you can afford a 2000 euro retreat, you can afford a plane ticket.

https://www.pujalepp.com/upcoming-events

I don't know why her website is such an absolute mess, it's embarassing really, but believe me when I say this is the most important thing I did for myself in my life.

@flume is fresh off this retreat. I did it 2 years ago. So I'm sure she'd be happy to talk about it.

Edited September 4, 2021 by flowboy

[Leo Gura]

Suck it up for now but make plans to move out and become independent.

Changing family is as futile as digging a hole in the ocean.

[somegirl]

@flowboy No, I belive you, it's just that right now I cannot afford it, unfortunately. I can save up for it in the future, but it will take some time. By that time comes I'll just somehow deal with this with available resources on the internet.
Though I might contact flume, if she wouldn't mind it, thank you.

@Leo Gura I see. I am making a plan for the future every day. Maybe things will change at least a little once I become independent and she will have more respect for me. I just want to remain more or less in good relations with her, even though this is clearly manipulative behaviour, which is unfortunate because she is my mother and I am her daughter. 

[flowboy]

1 minute ago, somegirl said:

@flowboy No, I belive you, it's just that right now I cannot afford it, unfortunately. I can save up for it in the future, but it will take some time. By that time comes I'll just somehow deal with this with available resources on the internet.
Though I might contact flume, if she wouldn't mind it, thank you.

It's so valuable and transformative that people who have done it, generally recommend to indeed do it when it's a good time in your life - when you can afford it. Doesn't matter at which age you do it - but afterwards, your quality of life is... very different.

Enough hyping it up. I can't speak for her, but I'm sure my girlfriend would be happy to talk about it if she has time. You may even have some mother related experiences in common.

[somegirl]

@flowboy Sure. Btw I'm glad you mentioned people pleasing and asked these questions related to it above, because for so long I couldn't figure out where this stems from. Because I generally had a good childhood. Though your questions in your previous comments made me realize just now that people-pleasing definitely played a role in me being paralized to make a decision on my own, without my mom's approval. (my dad is total opposite in comparison to my mom). And many others things, including my fear of getting someone else mad for voicing my opinions (which I still kinda have but am pushing through it), being in unfullfulling relationships (though I was the one being distant) etc.

 

Edited September 4, 2021 by somegirl

[aurum]

@somegirl

Mother issues run deep.

I’ve been to numerous therapy sessions with my own mother to heal our relationship. There has been progress but it’s  like dragging someone kicking and screaming. Whenever I feel like maybe we’ve really put the past in the past, suddenly something else comes up and it’s like we are right where we started.

Your mother may never change. As long as you don’t think your living situation is at stake, you can draw boundaries with her and firmly maintain them. You could try therapy if she is open to that. But those are essentially the extent of your options until you move away.

Unfortunately, it just seems like a facet of modern life that most of us grow up in households we would rather get away from. Parenting is in the dark ages. 

[somegirl]

@aurum Damn, that's so unfortunate. Feeling like issues constantly arise, even though you've been trying to improve them. I am also dreaming about going to quality therapy sessions with my mom, in the future, once I can afford it. I at least have a hope, if it's good enough therapist, that she might see what she's doing is toxic and damaging to me in the long run, in this case.

Do you think, apart from those moments you feel you are on ground zero, it has improved your overall relationship with her, in comparison to before? Was it worth the hussle? Or do you think it's just a waste of time because they never change (unless they truly want to themselves)?

[aurum]

15 minutes ago, somegirl said:

Do you think, apart from those moments you feel you are on ground zero, it has improved your overall relationship with her, in comparison to before? Was it worth the hussle? 

Most definitely it has been worth it.

The biggest thing I've gotten out of it has been confirmation that I'm not crazy. When you're in a toxic relationship with someone, and the other person sees no problem with their behavior, you can easily start to think that maybe you're totally off. Maybe they're right and you're just overreacting.

But once we sat down with someone, it became obvious that I wasn't crazy at all. That I was in fact seeing what I was seeing and feeling what I was feeling. That our relationship was, as I suspected, toxic.

Of course that doesn't mean there's never any room for you to look at your own behavior. We always have to take responsibility for what we're bringing to the relationship. But it was just very refreshing to hear someone validate my concerns instead of making me feel like I didn't know what I was talking about. That sort of thing can ruin your self-esteem and even make you start to question your judgment in other areas of your life.

It's also an opportunity for you to just get things off your chest that maybe you've been holding back. When we go through our daily lives, it's easy to repress things or just get caught up in patterns. But in therapy, it's like you have this magical hour blocked off where you're free to express just about anything you've been experiencing. And that's acceptable because it's "therapy", and that's what you're suppose to do in that context.

So yes I'd recommend it if you can get your mom to go and find someone qualified. Not all therapists are created equal and it's worth finding a good one.

[somegirl]

27 minutes ago, aurum said:

The biggest thing I've gotten out of it has been confirmation that I'm not crazy. When you're in a toxic relationship with someone, and the other person sees no problem with their behavior, you can easily start to think that maybe you're totally off. Maybe they're right and you're just overreacting.

Exactly this. I've been feeling the same sometimes. That's why I sometimes have trouble trusting my own feelings and judgement. For example, when I feel someone is behaving in a bad way, I would rather choose to stay quiet because I don't know if I am just "overreacting" over "minor thing" (because I kept hearing that over and over again that it becomes your inner voice). And you can imagine this can create troubles in your life.
 

31 minutes ago, aurum said:

Of course that doesn't mean there's never any room for you to look at your own behavior. We always have to take responsibility for what we're bringing to the relationship.

Sure.
 

33 minutes ago, aurum said:

But it was just very refreshing to hear someone validate my concerns instead of making me feel like I didn't know what I was talking about.

That's great to hear.

Overall, this has been helpful information. I'm already relating to some issues you've been experiencing too. I hope someday in the future she will accept to go there with me and we can solve this. Hoping for a miracle.

 

[Nahm]

@somegirl

Here I go on the relationship section about to say some crazy shit…. Buuuut have you considered the vibrational resonating vs not resonating aspect, like two tuning forks? My dad was unbearable when I lived at home with him, but the instant this clicked everything changed. Takes a little unpacking but the gist of it is… if she called you a refrigerator, a doorknob, or a toaster, you’d be perfectly unmoved, unaffected. 

[somegirl]

@Nahm It's not that I really believe I am crazy, I don't, what hurts is her ego-driven stubborness to admit she did something to hurt me and invalidation/dismissal of my feelings and making me feel like I am overreacting. And on top of what she gets mad at me and gives me silent treatment like a punishment for what? For my feelings getting hurt by her? 

And what is worse is that I'm noticing this pattern in my own life as well. For i.e, I noticed that sometimes, in order to not upset a person whose behavior bothers me, I don't say anything, because I'm afraid I will get them mad just for expressing my feelings. 

Edited September 4, 2021 by somegirl

[somegirl]

@modmyth Thanks for sharing your story. I can relate to some things you said. My mom also reacts aggressively, though, I have to say, my dad has been a saint. He has so much patience for me and listens to my feelings, thoughts and never ever judges me. I can't remember me ever arguing with him. So I always come to him when in need.
 

20 minutes ago, modmyth said:

Having abysmally low expectations of them and to a degree everyone has saved me a lot of grief that I could have otherwise had on top of whatever grief was there anyway, which I could hardly avoid because of my own circumstances/ "serious trauma". As negative as this might sound, there is an extremely positive side for having low/ no expectations for people just generally. It allows you to deal with what is with minimal baggage.

This has been my experience as well. I also have low expectations of people thanks to my mom not being able to understand my emotional needs sometimes, so I just subconsciously decided I will not expect much from people anyway. And yeah, it has been good in a sense that I'm not needy as maybe I was when I was a little girl, and don't expect much from people (what happens happens kind of thing). At least this is my theory.
 

28 minutes ago, modmyth said:

On the flip side, my brother has tried many times over his whole life, and I have watched him try to get them to understand him and to reach them emotionally over and over and over again, often by using emotional force out of sheer frustration. It was like watching him try to walk through a wall and banging his head into it over and over. I suppose this is partially why I tried so little, like observing them all was the confirmation that my parents had not really changed at their core emotionally, though I have always found these issues quite obvious (so I thought). As in, it's not hard to detect someone's fundamental lack of receptivity/ openness.

So you're saying nothing really changed in the end? Damn. I was being hopeful when I read this at first (when you guys moved out):

29 minutes ago, modmyth said:

According to him, they have been a lot more open to changing their perspective and being challenged about the things that happened in the last couple years especially.

 

[flowboy]

5 hours ago, somegirl said:

(which I still kinda have but am pushing through it)

Good for you!

 

5 hours ago, somegirl said:

Because I generally had a good childhood.

It doesn't matter where a childhood is on the objective scale of goodness. To a child, there is no objective scale. Small things can make enormous impact, because it's very immediate, and their parents are the only important people in their life, that they are completely dependent on.

Even the best parents had personality quirks that have a great impact on their child's defense mechanisms and conditioning that will control their life as an adult. Minimizing and relativising, and saying "it wasn't that bad", is doing your inner child a total disservice. Basically the same disservice that your mom is doing you today when she doesn't listen to you.

[Nahm]

@somegirl

I didn’t mean you’re crazy . Sometimes people think the vibrational approach for mental & emotional equanimity is crazy. ‘Crazy’ was meant humorously about my own comment, not about you. I hope it works out though, sounds like you got your hands full.  

[Vzdoh]

Dear, I am catching the focus u have is to make your mom understand your feelings and change her behavior and acknowledge that she hurts you when she does. 

Why do u have such a focus? Why is it so important to you? Why r u so attached to this outcome? 

I did Hoffman Process about 8 years ago where we dived in deep into childhood trauma and impact and patterns of behaviour that we borrowed from parents. Was the best investment in my life! 

What I learnt there is to love both of my disfunctional parents just the way they are. Not judging, not wanting to change them, not seeking anything from them. Just simply understanding that they are the way they are because they themselves grew up in quite disfunctional household and unfortunately they are similar victims to disfunction as you are now. This realisation that they are actually victims too, not perpetrators. That caused a deep feeling of compassion and love for both of my parents. I forgave them for whatever they have done to me. Because they didn't know better and did it out of negative love dynamic or love how they learnt it in their childhoods. 

And then you drop all expectations for your parents to be a certain way with you, for them to change or for them to love u the way u think u deserve to be loved. U simply love them, accept them, and move on. 

And u r able to move on because u don't expect the love they should have given u anymore, because u can now give that love to yourself in abundance. U don't depend on them. 

Yes. U can try to help them to fix disfunction out of feelings of compassion for them and wanting to stop their suffering. 

But like with my mom, I tried for 10 years to help her and save her from herself. Invested close to USD60, 000 in all sorts of meditations, psychotherapy etc. But she never really deeply wanted to change. So all progress stopped as soon as I stopped. And that's a very expensive mistake I made. No point in therapy and helping if the person deep down does not feel like they need it badly enough. Even now when my mom has already developed a serious psychiatric condition, she is still not doing anything to recover,even given all the tools. I love her dearly, but I can't be her saviour and I can't do the work for her. So I let it be. I accepted the fact that she might die sooner than later because of this. But her life is not my responsibility. Its hers. 

So in a nutshell, don't try to change your mom. Focus on yourself and making your life better and fixing your trauma. And only offer help if she really asks for it. 

[Raze]

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqr98O8QT3M

[somegirl]

1 hour ago, Vzdoh said:

focus u have is to make your mom understand your feelings and change her behavior and acknowledge that she hurts you when she does. 

Why do u have such a focus? Why is it so important to you? Why r u so attached to this outcome? 

Maybe because enforcing Silent Treatment on me is not particularly healthy way to deal with conflict, and is utterly destructive for me in the long run. Maybe because dismissing my feelings and saying I overreact to everything will be bad for me in the long run in a sense that I won't trust my own judgements and feelings even when somebody is being truly toxic (in relationships for example).

Of course I expect her to behave in a humane way, I am not a robot. And besides all of that, noone would be happy in this kind of dynamic. That's why I want her to understand. For betterment of both of us. I want to maintain good relations with her, she is my mom. I don't want to live in resentment.
 

1 hour ago, Vzdoh said:

What I learnt there is to love both of my disfunctional parents just the way they are. Not judging, not wanting to change them, not seeking anything from them. Just simply understanding that they are the way they are because they themselves grew up in quite disfunctional household and unfortunately they are similar victims to disfunction as you are now. This realisation that they are actually victims too, not perpetrators. That caused a deep feeling of compassion and love for both of my parents. I forgave them for whatever they have done to me. Because they didn't know better and did it out of negative love dynamic or love how they learnt it in their childhoods. 

I absolutely understand that she is dragging this kind of behaviour from her childhood. It's not hard for me to understand that her mom probably behaved this way towards her too. I only cannot understand why would she continue the misery and pass it on to me, instead of doing better then her parents. I hear so many to-be-parents how they are afraid not to pass toxic stuff their parents put on them, but it seems like my mom is happy to do same toxic shit her mom put her though. I don't understand why.
 

2 hours ago, Vzdoh said:

And then you drop all expectations for your parents to be a certain way with you, for them to change or for them to love u the way u think u deserve to be loved. U simply love them, accept them, and move on. 

And u r able to move on because u don't expect the love they should have given u anymore, because u can now give that love to yourself in abundance. U don't depend on them. 

Damn, this is helpful.

 

2 hours ago, Vzdoh said:

But like with my mom, I tried for 10 years to help her and save her from herself. Invested close to USD60, 000 in all sorts of meditations, psychotherapy etc. But she never really deeply wanted to change. So all progress stopped as soon as I stopped. And that's a very expensive mistake I made. No point in therapy and helping if the person deep down does not feel like they need it badly enough.

This makes me sad honestly. But I know that it's true - that you cannot help someone who doesn't want to be helped.
 

2 hours ago, Vzdoh said:

So in a nutshell, don't try to change your mom. Focus on yourself and making your life better and fixing your trauma. And only offer help if she really asks for it. 

Ugh, I see... It's too bad that that's all I can do. I'll be more than happy to help her if she ever asks me to. I hope she becomes more open towards self-improvement.