Would like a more detailed take on what happens after physical death (pref by Leo)

[The0Self]

28 minutes ago, Godishere said:

@Blackhawk If that's what you believe death is, fine. Who am I to tell you otherwise? Why do you believe it's not possible to die and then come back? Because you personally haven't experienced it, is my best bet. 

Idk how their response was intended, but if I were reading this, I’d say it has nothing to do with belief — you died and came back, okay... therefore you did not die and then not come back.

I’d imagine when people refer to death in this way, what they really refer to is death without returning.

[Goldzilla]

When you decide to die you go to the source and you grow another body until you decide to transcend and take the body with you into infinity. 

Death of the body is not a rule in this universe. It can be transcended, death. 

Those of you who seen and experienced this truth congrats. 

The other flock who thinks they are awakened or enlightened, keep reading your books. 

Edited August 30, 2021 by Goldzilla

[Goldzilla]

The Enlightened one, does not reincarnate. Basic spirituality rule. 

[Godishere]

@The0Self loose approximations as I said in my original message. Beliefs/memories/imagination. 

12 minutes ago, The0Self said:

I’d imagine when people refer to death in this way, what they really refer to is death without returning.

"I'd imagine". My point, we cannot get below, above or around imagination.

But yeah, I hear what your saying and I do see obviously see the identification problem with the body mind and the finitude it brings.

[Loba]

I added three NDE channels to my list there if you want to look through them as well, some are quite fascinating, a few people have died in very strange circumstances to have been able to have an NDE at all and I feel those have the most value to them in terms of proving what happens in the afterlife.  I have had some experiences related to dealing with the afterlife, but not a direct NDE so I didn't feel it was worth sharing here.

Sri Aurobindo's 'The psychic being' offers quite a lot in terms of explaining what the soul is and what to expect after death.  If you have had awakening experiences, it will be easier to parse what's being said.  Different cultures have been mapping the death process for millennia/centuries.  I think those cultures that have a closer connection to it are worth looking at, for sure.  I have a feeling that actually understanding the technicalities of the death process does take a decent amount of study, and even then, no one could give you an answer without writing another book on it.

I think there are a lot of different ways it can happen and it depends on what you want, and how much you have learned.  I think it is like an onion, a progressive removal of layers over many lifetimes.  I've never experienced being God, as the One God, but I have experienced my soul group, and ancestors and deities and things of this nature and have had a few transcendental moments where death was seen through as illusory.  

[The0Self]

12 minutes ago, Godishere said:

@The0Self loose approximations as I said in my original message. Beliefs/memories/imagination. 

"I'd imagine". My point, we cannot get below, above or around imagination.

But yeah, I hear what your saying and I do see obviously see the identification problem with the body mind and the finitude it brings.

Fair enough.

But come on...that’s clearly not the context I was using “imagination” in ? — I could have just as easily said “it’s quite obvious/clear” instead of “I’d imagine,” at least in regard to most people (I would have to add the word “most” or at the very least “many” in that case).

On second thought, maybe I wasn’t clear. I was referring to the people who say you didn’t die when you died and came back, not to the people such as yourself who claim they died and came back. Guess I can see why it wasn’t clear.

Btw I died and came back in the way you’re likely meaning as well.

Edited August 30, 2021 by The0Self

[cetus]

18 minutes ago, Goldzilla said:

The Enlightened one, does not reincarnate. Basic spirituality rule. 

The enlightened one has no preference at all. When they manifest they manifest. When they don't they don't.

[Godishere]

@The0Self haha yeah apologies, definitely taken out of context.

[cetus]

You choose to be here or not.

[billiesimon]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Well, there are really only two options:

Either God is fully awake or God is dreaming.

So if you ain't fully awake you are dreaming, and you will continue to dream until you become fully awake.

I expect that most people on the planet are so far from awakening that even death will not fully awaken them. So they will keep dreaming many more dreams.

And remember, there is nothing wrong with dreaming. You can dream as long as you like. If you want to dream 100,000 lifetimes, have at it.

So advaita vedanta might be right on samsara. 

I tend to see reincarnation as BS because God seems to know it will recognize itself once the ego dies. That's because during awakenings/glimpses I feel like I have already planned everything. 

So... My guess is that God doesn't reincarnate in a loop.

It might reconnect with its true nature at the end of every ego's lifespan.

Why should the ego awaken for God to come back to singularity? 

God recognizes itself clearly once the false self is dead, or transcended by spiritual work. So... I'm still very skeptical about samsara... Seems like a fairytale. Pretty absurd to create other dreams and other dimensions without coming back home to design them  isn't it?

[The0Self]

The simple reason for why it’s a misunderstanding to even wonder about whether reincarnation occurs or not:

If you do reincarnate, that means you’re already reincarnated right now. Assuming you don’t already know that you’re a reincarnation, how does reincarnation actually happen in a meaningful way? You wouldn’t know it. There’s just life/God.

It can also be directly recognized that the difference between reincarnation and no-reincarnation is not even merely imaginary, but completely nonsensical.

Edited August 31, 2021 by The0Self

[BlackPhil]

5 hours ago, Godishere said:

Well I can tell you what it was like for me to die. I died. And I'm still here.

Keep in mind I'm going off memories here. So these are obviously just what I imagine, nonetheless. 

I guess what happened was that every duality collapsed around itself and I became the God mind. The God mind was everything you see in front of you but everything being connected and conscious of itself as infinite imagination and alive(one). Even if I closed my eyes, I would just imagine a new reality as the visual field and my eyes became just an idea of where the light of consciousness came through. 

 

Yes, but now youre talking about awakening. What I mean with death in this thread is the (imaginary) death of the physical body. I dont see it as a guarantee (or even likely) that people in general will fully awaken just because their physical body dies. I think this only happens to those who are enlightened/have reached a very high state of consciousness at the moment of their physical death. The majority of people wont be conscious enough to fully break through all the layers just because their physical "probe" stops working. I know from experience (which seems to match what many yogis, sages etc through history has explained) that our false, separated ego-self is made up of more "bodies" than just the physical one.

This particular "reality", dreamed up by the godhead, also consists of more "planes" than merely the physical one. This you can experience yourself through various means like AP etc. These different metaphysical planes/dreams are pretty consistent in their structure and how they manifest for people, not just random. They also seem to operate under specific systems, rules and "logic", much like this physical one but different. They are ofc ultimately imaginary, but no more or less than the physical plane. The astral plane for example seem to have "areas", entities and other phenomena that can be experienced and interacted with by different people/egos visiting, independent of eachother. This indicates that they are not just merely an individual egos personal manifestation/dream, but infact an intelligently designed creation by you/me/godself, there to fill a function as another part of the whole creation.

Since our separated selves appear to "exist" on these other planes aswell, independent of the physical body, I dont think our ego will stop experiencing itself as separate on all levels automatically just because it loses its physical mask. Just like its not an easy thing to stop imagining yourself as a separate self in this physical dream (I mean maintaining it, not peak breakthrough experiences), I think the same will apply on the astral, and all other layers this dream may consist of.

Just looking at the incomprehensibly complex system operating this physical dream, making it all work together as one, towards evolution, I have a very hard time believing this system doesnt keep following a predesigned pattern beyond physical death.

My own intuition, and what Ive found out from researching the matter, is that we will be given a possibility to break free and awaken from the, so called, wheel of karma when we leave our physical bodies. Most egos (in our current stage of evolution) will not be developed enough or ready to completely let go and merge with infinity though 

If there is the slightest resistance, attachment or fear left in you it will stop the process and you will remain as a separate self. Perhaps youll be stuck on some of the non-physical planes in gods imagination until whats left of your previous identity, memories etc is erased/fades away enough for "you" to take the form of some other false self and start again. Im not certain if exactly everything of your individual "spirit" or energy (call it w/e) fades away tho, I dont think it can unless you fully merge with the godhead. That little essence of whats left could maybe explain past life regression and things like that some people report. Could also play a part in what your base level of consciousness will be in your next manifestation.

Much of this is ofc speculation but I definitly think there atleast is some type of system like this we will follow. I dont believe gods evolutionary design just turns into random dreams all of a sudden and I also dont think youll awaken fully after physical death unless youre developed enough to embrace it with 0 resistance. Even if you can handle a breakthrough trip that wont be the same thing as completely and forever maintaining nondual consciousness.

Then there are ofc occult practitioners throughout history that claims its possible to use methods, black magic and stuff in order to obtain more selfish gains for their ego like choosing exactly who/what you will be when reincarnating etc. This I dont know much about but I have an open mind for what could be possible.

Edit: In any case Im certain these things can be explored alot more than some people think. The mentality some people have when saying its impossible to know/pointless to discuss etc is the same kind of mindset people who dismiss the possibility of awakening using psychedelics (without even having tried) have. 

That mindset doesnt really help you if youre into this work, exploring spirituality and these kinds of things imo.

Edited August 31, 2021 by BlackPhil

[The0Self]

37 minutes ago, BlackPhil said:

I dont see it as a guarantee (or even likely) that people in general will fully awaken just because their physical body dies. I think this only happens to those who are enlightened/have reached a very high state of consciousness at the moment of their physical death. The majority of people wont be conscious enough to fully break through all the layers just because their physical "probe" stops working.

Death is simply the end of separation beliefs. Which also happens to be what complete enlightenment is. It is not tethered to being highly conscious, though it can seem to relate somewhat. The only reason we associate death with bodily failure is the intuition that our remaining beliefs of separation may likely fall away at that time.

Can’t say I see a big difference between an enlightened person dying and any other person dying — the remaining separation beliefs of the latter could perhaps somehow stay in tact but I don’t see why they would... and even if that leads to an associated rebirth or prolonged dissolution, first of all I don’t know how the beliefs would still be intact, and second of all if rebirth happened and there was no memory of the previous life, did rebirth really even occur? It’s a total story because it’s unfalsifiable whether that’s already the case — in fact in that exact case it would be nonsensical. There’s no separation anyway.

Edited August 31, 2021 by The0Self

[BlackPhil]

3 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Death is simply the end of separation beliefs. Which also happens to be what the recognition of enlightenment is. It is not tethered to being highly conscious, though it can seem to relate somewhat. The only reason we associate death with bodily failure is the intuition that our remaining beliefs of separation may fall away at that time. Can’t say I see a big difference between an enlightened person dying and any other person dying — the remaining beliefs of separation could perhaps somehow stay in tact but I don’t see why they would... and even if that leads to an associated rebirth or prolonged dissolution, first of all I don’t know how the beliefs would still be intact, and second of all if rebirth happened and there was no memory of the previous life, did rebirth really even occur? It’s a total story because it’s unfalsifiable whether that’s already the case — in fact in that exact case it would be nonsensical. There’s no separation anyway.

Yeah, well what you define as death is a wordgame. Up for interpretation. Doesnt really matter what you call it aslong as the person listening understand what youre pointing towards. This particular thread was about what might occur after the physical body dies/stops working atleast. That doesnt necessarily mean its the end of separation beliefs, nor the death of the nonphysical components of the separation. Prefer to call it total awakening or something like that when talking about complete loss of separation beliefs.

Im no believer in the kind of rebirth where you keep anything noticeable of your previous identity. Atleast not consciously or in any way physically accessible. But there are layers to "reality" like I said, some that have no resemblance to what we can conceptualize or measure using human intelligence or means, so I cant really decribe it in words. But I assume you also had mystical experiences/breakthroughs etc? If so you will probably have an open mind to the possibility of some kind of "essence" of your individuated consciousness staying intact through different incarnations/experiences. This essence is ofc consciousness itself like the rest and its unlimited. Therefor I dont see it as impossible that it could keep some properties/individuality through different dreams/egos w/e.

Im not really talking about memories of the kinds we have now from our current imaginary lifes. More like a memory of what state of consciousness you have aquired that could follow you through lifetimes on your evolution towards becoming fully awake/nondual. I dont personally have any experience of past life memories or stuff like that but if someone could have the ability to reach a state of consciousness from which this "data" stored could somehow be analysed and manifested as memories, I dont know. But nothing is impossible.

Its still worth trying to find out more. If nothing else, its interesting, and Im a person seeking knowledge.

Even if there is no separation ultimately we still have to deal with the appearance of it being until we awaken fully. So until that happens it doesnt really do anything just knowing it and experiencing it during short breakthrough peaks.

[BlackPhil]

37 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Death is simply the end of separation beliefs. Which also happens to be what the recognition of enlightenment is. It is not tethered to being highly conscious, though it can seem to relate somewhat. The only reason we associate death with bodily failure is the intuition that our remaining beliefs of separation may fall away at that time. Can’t say I see a big difference between an enlightened person dying and any other person dying — the remaining beliefs of separation could perhaps somehow stay in tact but I don’t see why they would... and even if that leads to an associated rebirth or prolonged dissolution, first of all I don’t know how the beliefs would still be intact, and second of all if rebirth happened and there was no memory of the previous life, did rebirth really even occur? It’s a total story because it’s unfalsifiable whether that’s already the case — in fact in that exact case it would be nonsensical. There’s no separation anyway.

Too tired now, cant type correctly. Can continue discussion tomorrow maybe have a good night

[The0Self]

@BlackPhil Yeah I agree with everything you said pretty much. And yes I had those experiences. Also past-life experiences. Wasn’t claiming there isn’t a Law of One style reincarnation game in play somehow, it’s just that it’s not really relevant for awakening, and further revelations of unconditional love and no separation (quite beyond mere past-life experiences) prompted me to somehow talk about how rebirth is not the ultimate truth anyway, regardless of how relatively true it is.

Edited August 31, 2021 by The0Self

[This]

I like to think that when i die, all of this will disappear and i won't be there to know that i ever existed or that anything ever existed.

Not anything i do while alive will have any effect on my own nonexistence. 

[The0Self]

14 minutes ago, This said:

I like to think that when i die, all of this will disappear and i won't be there to know that i ever existed or that anything ever existed.

Not anything i do while alive will have any effect on my own nonexistence. 

True! But there’s also no me to have its own nonexistence in the first place.

[Leo Gura]

Don't forget. Death does not exist at the level of awakening.

Death only exists as a hallucination at low levels of consciousness.

Stop wasting time thinking about hallucinations. Hallucinations are endless.

[This]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Don't forget. Death does not exist at the level of awakening.

Death only exists as a hallucination at low levels of consciousness.

Stop wasting time thinking about hallucinations. Hallucinations are endless.

And here we go again with low and high levels of consciousness and how some activity is a waste of time and some other activity isn't.

I must have a level of consciousness of a snail because all this talk of levels and hallucinations and awakenings just doesn't ring any bells for me. ?