Would like a more detailed take on what happens after physical death (pref by Leo)

[BlackPhil]

Hi. Im wondering if Leo (or anyone else with insights) has some new takes on the process that occurs after death of the physical body. I am aware of the truth of non-duality. I have had many phychedelic trips, including ego deaths. So there is no doubt in my mind that the final "destination" is that complete lack of self/merge with everything/nirvana/god.

When Ive seen Leos videos about the matter I get the feeling that he implies that we will all automatically become infinity when our physical human-selves dies, no matter how spiritually developed we have become during our lifetime (might be me that misunderstood him, thats why I want a clarification).

I personally have a hard time buying this (dont get me wrong, I do believe we will all reach that point in the "end" guaranteed, but that could mean an infinity of lifetimes). What I dont believe is that any human ego that dies will go there after each lifetime, no matter how little developed he/she is. I dont think for example a person who has completely negligated/been unaware of spirituality during that individuals lifetime will be able to merge with the infinite when the physical body dies. Perhaps get a flash glimpse of it before getting overwhelmed and popping out as some limited self again that matches his/her development of what the individual can comprehend as some sort of "reality" for the time being.

Just like the fact that you can have peak experiences of god when breaking through on psychedelics but at the same time its pretty much unheard of, or atleast extremely rare, that someone manages to maintain what the psychedelic has given you a taste of by yourself when it has faded (even people who use psychedelics like 5meo or similar very frequently with enlightment as goal. To do this you must go through other more challenging practices in order to increase your baseline consciousness aswell as strenghten your ability to remain in those high stages for longer periods (and according to many yogis this process can take many lifetimes of practice. This is not something an everyday person achieve automatically by just doing something so basic that literally everyone can and will do it; meaning killing your physical body.

Like a yogi (or munk, cant remember) once answered when asked the question of if it is possible to reach enlightened states using psychedelics: Yes it is possible! But you cannot maintain it, you don't have the strenght!

Another factor is that the illusion of our human selves goes deeper than just the physical body. Meaning that we supposedly have a Physical Body, an Etheric Body, an Astral Body, a Mental Body a Spiritual Body and a Cosmic Body.

Personally I cant deny or confirm the existance of all those I mentioned there or how correct the terms they have been given there are. But I do have personal experience of atleast the so called astral body and have had since I was a kid. Before I had any concepts of what spirituality, enlightment etc even was I had spontaneous astral projections occuring maybe once a month or so. Many say that astral projection is the same thing as lucid dreaming (and perhaps in a way it is) but whats different for me is that when you astral project while awake you experience the actually separation of you astral body from your physical one. This is accompanied by intense vibrations through your spine and whole body (can even be very painful like getting powerful electric shocks), if you manage to relax when this happens you will most often simply glide out of your physical body (during this whole event you are completely alert and awake) and end up in the astral version of the very same room you were previously sleeping in. Again, the first years of this happening to me as a kid I had no idea what was going on, so this was not something I had any concept of in my head and thereby manifested it. It just happened, and there I was on the astral version of my house and neighborhood where I could fly around etc. Its very dreamlike the whole sensation but at the same time very much clearer and more consistent. Its also populated by entities (often catlike beings for some reason). Sometimes these experiences were beautiful and sometimes quite terrifying since some of the entities populating the astral plane seems aggressive.

Not until years later as a teen when I got my hands on some book about Indian mysticism I actually found out this was a real thing being practiced by people for thousands of years. This blew my mind back then btw since I  grew up in a secular home with parents who didnt know anything about spirituality (my grandmother had similar experiences tho she told me). Anyways got sidetracked on AP there.

My point is that since these other "bodies" actually do "exist" (as imagination ultimately sure, but no less than the imagination of our physical bodies) and make up our selves how do we know that these dies just because our physical body dies? From what Ive heard from yogis and others these bodies actually persist longer, especially if we have stored up "energy" left. All this is pointing against the fact that we would just instantly merge with god after our physical death. Still Ive heard almost nothing from Leo about these things. Dont get me wrong, I find great value in Leos work and Im fully onboard with his conclusions on the ultimate truth etc. And I know psychedelics has an amazing power to take you to these very high states. But at the same time I get the feeling that there is alot of stuff inbetween being overlooked here, things that may be important.

And yet again, I know that all this ultimately is imagination like everything else but that doesn't mean we can just ignore it and make it go away, just like we cant imagine away our imaginary walls in our room. These experiences, different astral planes etc seem to be very consistent for everyone who experiences them, just like this reality but with slightly less physical rules. Gods imagined reality definitely has alot of layers to it and I dont think we can just overlook them thinking we got a free-ticket to Nirvana if we choke on our breakfast tomorrow ;)...

I mean if everyone is heading to the ultimate after death why would the yogi in Tibet spend his whole life in a hard cave trying to reach enlightment until he finally does it at lets say age 95 if he was going there anyways very soon automatically?

[BlackPhil]

Ive seen questions related to this here before and often people seem to find the need to point out that psychedelics are so much more powerful than the planes you can reach when astral projecting etc. And I know, thats not the point here. Im not here to compare the states of consciousness reached by the two different things. So skip those answers please, youre missing the point.

Even if your current normal human state of consciousness is insignificant compared to the states you reach when peaking on your trip it doesnt take away the fact that when you come down you are still stuck in your human body and have to deal with it best you can. Therefor its not wise to just ignore phenomena inbetween the finite and the infinite, because even the finite things can prove being a huge challenge as long as you also are stuck in a finite form. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by BlackPhil

[Thought Art]

Whatever you want

There is no 'physical' just the sensations and appearance. So, it's just a dream. You can't die as consciousness. It's just nothing, as something forever now doing something relative absolutely.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Thought Art

[BlackPhil]

5 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Whatever you want

Very likely for someone who has reached the state of consciousness where this can be manifested from. Im not sure its that simple if you havent tho.

Edit: I mean, as you can see in this physical reality god/me/you created, nothing with real value is given out for free. Instant gratification is a shortcut to suffering. If its designed like that here I doubt that doesnt apply later on aswell.

Edited August 29, 2021 by BlackPhil

[Thought Art]

14 minutes ago, BlackPhil said:

Very likely for someone who has reached the state of consciousness where this can be manifested from. Im not sure its that simple if you havent tho.

What I mean is, that you are dead. The thing is, you have never done what you didn't want to do. You are actually far bigger than this limited human incarnation. So, 

Whatever you want is the only thing that exists, and when you are limited you just do that because it's just you. To be human you have to be willing it. Even if the Ego can't change physicality you as God are choosing this. 

Reality is composed of Nothing. So, when you die if, I am not exactly sure but... You are infinity so you probably just do what you want. Because you only ever do that.

Death is something imagined by Mind. Pure Mind Is Emptiness, and Nothing, Purety, Goodness, Love and infinity. It's like a blank canvas that is completely relative and singular and has the ability to desire and choose. Emotions are something the universe has prior to physical matter. It's how it creates physical limitations and Divine Order. It's just this and nothing else. But, I think this realization can only happen with awakenings and I am still integrating tbh. Death, I think, is the experience of reconnecting to your divine source and true nature of being infinitely creative and loving. From this state, you may choose to experience things that seem insane to a human who is so selfish and biased. Because, when you Grok and are infinity the only thing do to is to dream, limit yourself into various experiences and forget, awakening, yada yada or whatever other unimaginable possibilities you can express yourself as.

Not the ego, but you as the building blocks of reality.

What exists is the perfect object, shape shifter fun thing. You. God.

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Thought Art

[BlackPhil]

2 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

What I mean is, that you are dead. The thing is, you have never done what you didn't want to do. Your actually far bigger than this limited human incarnation. So, 

Whatever you want is the only thing that exists, and when you are limited you just do that because it's just you. To be human you have to be willing it. Even if the Ego can't change physicality you as God are choosing this. 

Yes, Im aware of this. That its the case from the ultimate version of me. That everything that happens is as should be from the perspective of god. Still that could theoretically (or practically even) mean that ones ego could go to literal hell next. Even this could be absolute love and perfection from the ultimate perspective, I know. Knowing that intellectually as an ego doesnt really make that potential experience less hellish for the ego though. The only real escape is ofc to wake up to your true self and that is the entire dilemma we're talking about. I dont think that happens after the imaginary egos imaginary death just like that, as some people seem to believe. 

[Someone here]

No one knows. It's a mystery. 

[Thought Art]

7 minutes ago, BlackPhil said:

Yes, Im aware of this. That its the case from the ultimate version of me. That everything that happens is as should be from the perspective of god. Still that could theoretically (or practically even) mean that ones ego could go to literal hell next. Even this could be absolute love and perfection from the ultimate perspective, I know. Knowing that intellectually as an ego doesnt really make that potential experience less hellish for the ego though. The only real escape is ofc to wake up to your true self and that is the entire dilemma we're talking about. I dont think that happens after the imaginary egos imaginary death just like that, as some people seem to believe. 

This is a common fear I have as well. I am like "Yeah, but what if I programmed this thing to like, super suck cuz im actually a masochist god?" But then I am like, yeah probably not if I am infinity which is Totally Good and Loving. And Alone.

You just don't remember. There isn't a hell that I am sure. Other than what you experience while a human, there is plenty of hell in this experience. When you die, I am pretty sure you return to infinite love because who ever and whatever you identify with, you understand as God while awake after death is a limited finite expression which you imagined in the first place. So, if that is dead you are gone, but as God remain. Which, is like waking up from a dream. The problem is, you think you are alive!

Edited August 29, 2021 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

6 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No one knows. It's a mystery. 

Good Description of God 

This present moment might as well be a DMT trip, it has no ground. This is eternity and heaven right now. 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Thought Art

[BlackPhil]

1 minute ago, Thought Art said:

This is a common fear I have as well. I am like "Yeah, but what if I programmed this thing to like, super suck cuz im actually a masochist god?" But then I am like, yeah probably not if I am infinity which is Totally Good and Loving. And Alone.

Well, suffering is a very real and common occurrence god is putting itself through here on this plane too. Ive experienced it, likewise have countless versions of me/egos.

Since gods imagination is infinite it must per definition also include planes/experiences with infinite suffering. Even if it cannot be permanent because only finite things busy with surviving has to be concerned about suffering. 

Still, Im not really afraid of those things. Because its nothing we can do, it is what it is. What is possible tho is to explore these different planes and try to learn more if youre curious.

[James12345]

41 minutes ago, BlackPhil said:

Hi. Im wondering if Leo (or anyone else with insights) has some new takes on the process that occurs after death of the physical body. I am aware of the truth of non-duality. I have had many phychedelic trips, including ego deaths. So there is no doubt in my mind that the final "destination" is that complete lack of self/merge with everything/nirvana/god.

When Ive seen Leos videos about the matter I get the feeling that he implies that we will all automatically become infinity when our physical human-selves dies, no matter how spiritually developed we have become during our lifetime (might be me that misunderstood him, thats why I want a clarification).

I personally have a hard time buying this (dont get me wrong, I do believe we will all reach that point in the "end" guaranteed, but that could mean an infinity of lifetimes). What I dont believe is that any human ego that dies will go there after each lifetime, no matter how little developed he/she is. I dont think for example a person who has completely negligated/been unaware of spirituality during that individuals lifetime will be able to merge with the infinite when the physical body dies. Perhaps get a flash glimpse of it before getting overwhelmed and popping out as some limited self again that matches his/her development of what the individual can comprehend as some sort of "reality" for the time being.

Just like the fact that you can have peak experiences of god when breaking through on psychedelics but at the same time its pretty much unheard of, or atleast extremely rare, that someone manages to maintain what the psychedelic has given you a taste of by yourself when it has faded (even people who use psychedelics like 5meo or similar very frequently with enlightment as goal. To do this you must go through other more challenging practices in order to increase your baseline consciousness aswell as strenghten your ability to remain in those high stages for longer periods (and according to many yogis this process can take many lifetimes of practice. This is not something an everyday person achieve automatically by just doing something so basic that literally everyone can and will do it; meaning killing your physical body.

Like a yogi (or munk, cant remember) once answered when asked the question of if it is possible to reach enlightened states using psychedelics: Yes it is possible! But you cannot maintain it, you don't have the strenght!

Another factor is that the illusion of our human selves goes deeper than just the physical body. Meaning that we supposedly have a Physical Body, an Etheric Body, an Astral Body, a Mental Body a Spiritual Body and a Cosmic Body.

Personally I cant deny or confirm the existance of all those I mentioned there or how correct the terms they have been given there are. But I do have personal experience of atleast the so called astral body and have had since I was a kid. Before I had any concepts of what spirituality, enlightment etc even was I had spontaneous astral projections occuring maybe once a month or so. Many say that astral projection is the same thing as lucid dreaming (and perhaps in a way it is) but whats different for me is that when you astral project while awake you experience the actually separation of you astral body from your physical one. This is accompanied by intense vibrations through your spine and whole body (can even be very painful like getting powerful electric shocks), if you manage to relax when this happens you will most often simply glide out of your physical body (during this whole event you are completely alert and awake) and end up in the astral version of the very same room you were previously sleeping in. Again, the first years of this happening to me as a kid I had no idea what was going on, so this was not something I had any concept of in my head and thereby manifested it. It just happened, and there I was on the astral version of my house and neighborhood where I could fly around etc. Its very dreamlike the whole sensation but at the same time very much clearer and more consistent. Its also populated by entities (often catlike beings for some reason). Sometimes these experiences were beautiful and sometimes quite terrifying since some of the entities populating the astral plane seems aggressive.

Not until years later as a teen when I got my hands on some book about Indian mysticism I actually found out this was a real thing being practiced by people for thousands of years. This blew my mind back then btw since I  grew up in a secular home with parents who didnt know anything about spirituality (my grandmother had similar experiences tho she told me). Anyways got sidetracked on AP there.

My point is that since these other "bodies" actually do "exist" (as imagination ultimately sure, but no less than the imagination of our physical bodies) and make up our selves how do we know that these dies just because our physical body dies? From what Ive heard from yogis and others these bodies actually persist longer, especially if we have stored up "energy" left. All this is pointing against the fact that we would just instantly merge with god after our physical death. Still Ive heard almost nothing from Leo about these things. Dont get me wrong, I find great value in Leos work and Im fully onboard with his conclusions on the ultimate truth etc. And I know psychedelics has an amazing power to take you to these very high states. But at the same time I get the feeling that there is alot of stuff inbetween being overlooked here, things that may be important.

And yet again, I know that all this ultimately is imagination like everything else but that doesn't mean we can just ignore it and make it go away, just like we cant imagine away our imaginary walls in our room. These experiences, different astral planes etc seem to be very consistent for everyone who experiences them, just like this reality but with slightly less physical rules. Gods imagined reality definitely has alot of layers to it and I dont think we can just overlook them thinking we got a free-ticket to Nirvana if we choke on our breakfast tomorrow ;)...

I mean if everyone is heading to the ultimate after death why would the yogi in Tibet spend his whole life in a hard cave trying to reach enlightment until he finally does it at lets say age 95 if he was going there anyways very soon automatically?

Is there any you, life, sleep or universe during so called sleep or before birth, which is now? You are already dead, so called dream with identification with thoughts makes you alive. Don’t think, that’s what after death is. Now is death. Because you have never born. Since  so called your birth whatever learned is just a thought. Not even. Including your birth. So neither there is a you have a phsical body nor in the universe. Now is the source, as always been. 

[BlackPhil]

10 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No one knows. It's a mystery. 

This plane of reality is clearly a system working in a specific way. Systems can be explored. It is possible to visit other planes with other systems. Even if we can never grasp the full thing we can still learn more details/parts about the metaphysical, just like we can of the physical.

[James12345]

14 minutes ago, Someone here said:

No one knows. It's a mystery. 

Where is your body when you sleep, where are you?

[BlackPhil]

2 minutes ago, James12345 said:

Is there any you, life, sleep or universe during so called sleep or before birth, which is now? You are already dead, so called dream with identification with thoughts makes you alive. Don’t think, that’s what after death is. Now is death. Because you have never born. Since  so called your birth whatever learned is just a thought. Not even. Including your birth. So neither there is a you have a phsical body nor in the universe. Now is the source, as always been. 

Im aware of this too. But we have to call the changing of forms something, death is whats commonly used. You dont have to think of the usual concept of death people have just because you hear that word. Death for me doesnt mean what it does conventionally.

[James12345]

1 minute ago, BlackPhil said:

But we have to call the changing of forms something,

There is no such a thing as form. You are always same, not even moved nor began. Just thinking makes it, where is the thinker? Where is the thinking? If you dont think will you ever be such a thing as form even formlessness? 

[Someone here]

@BlackPhil do you even know what this life is before you go asking about death? Lmao 

[BlackPhil]

3 minutes ago, James12345 said:

There is no such a thing as form. You are always same, not even moved nor began. Just thinking makes it, where is the thinker? Where is the thinking? If you dont think will you ever be such a thing as form even formlessness? 

7 minutes ago, James12345 said:

Where is your body when you sleep, where are you?

7 minutes ago, James12345 said:

 

2 minutes ago, James12345 said:

 

Im aware of this too. This thread is not about whats ultimately true from the ultimate perspective, like I said. To communicate in this imaginary space we must use these imaginary concepts in lack of other alternatives, as long as we imagine ourselves stuck in this illusion of form. Just assume Im aware of those obvious things please. Unless your ego has already in this moment achieved complete loss of identification with self or form you also have to play under the rules of the game. If you cant handle it maybe Mahasamadhi is the way. I on the other hand still have some attachment to this imaginary existence (which is very faschinating aswell btw even if its nothing and nowhere) and Im curious about more imaginary details. So please stick to the subject.

 

[Breakingthewall]

According to non-duality, experiences of infinity with psychedelics, I would say what they have pointed out above. this life is only appearance, reality is infinite, you are infinite now and you will continue to be. Nothing is going to happen and nothing is happening now, but ... many mystics of all time speak of reincarnation. current shadguru for example, but many others, practically all. I would like to understand how, if we are not really separate beings, there is reincarnation. something tells me that it is so

[BlackPhil]

1 hour ago, Someone here said:

@BlackPhil do you even know what this life is before you go asking about death? Lmao 

Life and death are both only concepts, symbols we use to describe something and nothing with. Both of you kind of sounds like you've just found out about non-duality and are now just parroting obvious phrases. If you feel completely done with this illusion then sit down and fade away. Im not stopping you. But if not, even you are bound to the rules of the maya illusion as long as you imagine yourself to inhabit this body. There is nothing stopping one from exploring this illusion for aslong as one feel fit for it.

I know death is not a thing in the sense many people think of it. But it can still be used as a concept. What it means all depends on how the one hearing it interprets it

Edited August 29, 2021 by BlackPhil

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, BlackPhil said:

Life and death are both only concepts, symbols we use to describe something and nothing with. Both of you kind of sounds like you've just found out about non-duality and are now just parroting obvious phrases. If you feel completely done with this illusion then sit down and fade away. Im not stopping you. But if not, even you are bound to the rules of the maya illusion as long as you imagine yourself to inhabit this body. There is nothing stopping one from exploring this illusion for aslong as one feel fit for it.

I know death is not a thing in the sense many people think of it. But it can still be used as a concept. What it is  all depends on how the one hearing it interprets it

Yeah they are just words to you unless you grok it.