How to Know if You’ve Reached True Stage Yellow

[bmcnicho]

I’ve been moving toward Stage Yellow for a few years now and I feel like I have a pretty solid grasp on systems thinking.  I do still have psychological hang-ups from previous stages, but for the most part I’m able to evaluate things on a multi-perspectival level.  Periodically though, I’ll have a new insight on a topic and it’ll make me wonder if before I wasn’t truly at Stage Yellow yet.

I feel like of all the stages, Yellow has the murkiest definition.  I sometimes have trouble distinguishing Yellow from intellectual Orange.  Fundamentally the difference lies not in the intelligence level of the material but in the underlying thought processes behind it

It’s also easy to overlook some of the more radical implications of a full stage Yellow worldview, for example that democracy and authoritarianism are simply different governmental structures that represent different survival strategies on the part of the nations involved.  With some more nuance added, I think this would be an accurate description, but still a difficult statement to make at a time where democracy is under threat throughout much of the world.

So I guess I’m still trying to grasp where the threshold is where a set of ideas qualify as Stage Yellow rather than a more traditional intellectual analysis.  I’m also questioning if under Stage Yellow it’s possible to take on strong personal positions or if one would tend to have mixed views on basically every topic to maintain an intellectual objectivity

[caspex]

i wouldn't say there is any noticeable boundary, as is the case with most things.

But I think if you were stage yellow, you wouldn't care about maintaining any intellectual objectivity or superiority, that's orange. That would be transcended(to some degree) at a good mastering of stage green imo. I say Yellow is similar to Intellectual Orange, only much much wiser.

As you would expect, it's a mix of everything good about all the previous stages. Yellow is what intellectual orange aspires to.

Imo just go look at the value system of yellow, compare it with orange. And see how they are different and what is more authentic to you at this moment (be honest with yourself). 

[DieFree]

You're not going around labeling people low consciousness to get a little hit of superiority heroin 

 

[Nobody_Here]

My rule of thumb is: Orange hates Green and sees little or no value in that stage. Yellow understands and appreciates Green, but it sees Green's shortcomings and works to transcend them through systemic thinking.

[PepperBlossoms]

yellow doesn't get triggered by green stuff the way green does.

green sees trump signs, pray signs, karen videos, anti-vaxxers and gets triggered as it wants it differently.

yellow sees those and accepts that people are where they are and focuses on other stuff.

Green has a heavy agenda of pushing its own view on others. yellow has views but is also interested in understanding other views and how things are all connected.

 

orange and blue get triggered by immigrants, lack of quality, poor people, criminals, lack of discipline

[DocWatts]

Just one person's considered opinion, but it would be wise to mindful of the limitations that come with treating Spiral Dynamics as a proxy for an individual's overall level of development.

The reason for this is that the meta-ideology or paradigm that forms the basis of one's conceptual system is only one part of an individual's overall development, and is something that can be related to at different levels of depth and complexity. Namely that individuals can be at a level of depth and complexity that's either above or below the meta-ideology they've been imprinted with. Consider Marcus Auerilus and George W Bush, two figures who used Blue as the basis of their conceptual systems, and the differences in depth and complexity between the two.

On a personal level I may use Yellow as part of my conceptual system, but I also know that the Yellow I've been imprinted with is a flattened and simplified version compared with the likes of someone like Noam Chomsky or Ken Wilber.

In my view Spiral Dynamics is much better used as a sociological model which describes the interplay of how meta-ideologies develop and interact with one another, and how Survival Needs play out in different historical and social contexts.

Edited August 29, 2021 by DocWatts

[Nobody_Here]

8 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

I’m also questioning if under Stage Yellow it’s possible to take on strong personal positions or if one would tend to have mixed views on basically every topic to maintain an intellectual objectivity

Saying “everything is relative” is more of a Green thing. Yellow can prioritize what perspective is best based on predefined criteria.

[Nobody_Here]

16 minutes ago, DocWatts said:

In my view Spiral Dynamics is much better used as a sociological model which describes the interplay of how meta-ideologies develop and interact with one another, and how Survival Needs play out in different historical and social contexts.

I've noticed that many people on the internet use the stages of the spiral as a measure of psychological or spiritual development when Cook-Greuter’s stages of ego development would be better suited for that purpose. 

http://www.cook-greuter.com/Cook-Greuter 9 levels paper new 1.1'14 97p[1].pdf

Edited August 29, 2021 by Nobody_Here

[mememe]

8 hours ago, bmcnicho said:

I sometimes have trouble distinguishing Yellow from intellectual Orange.

yellow and orange are in some sense a bit similar, in sense of economics they are both very pragmatically  oriented towards success. that`s why i tend to compare both a lot because also yellow and orange differ so much of each other in sense of understanding how a business should work. if you understand that you might at least be in green

i always think fully stepping into yellow means a yellow job. still difficult if you have a tendency leaning to the more bluish/green/purplish side (experience mode).

Edited August 29, 2021 by mememe

[tuckerwphotography]

Read the follow excerpt from Susanne Cook-Greuter and sense (with your somatic gut brain not just rational mind) how much you resonate with it.

http://www.cook-greuter.com/9 levels of increasing embrace update 1 07.pdf 

"The Autonomous Stage 5: (Strategist)

The Autonomous stage represents an enlarged fourth person perspective which places the individual’s experience into the context of particular worldviews and within the totality of a person’s lifetime. With the expanded time frame and wider social networks, Autonomous persons can perceive systemic patterns or long-term trends and are often valued for that “strategic” capacity. Cognitively they have a general systems view of reality, that is, they can comprehend multiple interconnected systems of relationships and processes.

Autonomous persons realize that they may notice different conflicting aspects or polarities in themselves at different times and in different context, but -- unlike Individualists, who may despair about ever knowing who they really are -- Autonomous persons are capable of “owning” and integrating many disparate parts of themselves. This includes integrating previously compartmentalized sub-identities. The crucial new capacity is to realize one’s power to generate meaning and to tell a new story. This is possible now precisely because one understands that meaning is an interpretation we bring to experience. We all tell stories about what is happening all the time. Autonomous persons consciously commit to actively create a meaningful life for themselves and for others through self-determination and self-actualization within constantly shifting contexts. They posses a relatively strong, autonomous self that is both differentiated and well integrated. This includes the capacity to see and accept paradox and tolerate ambiguity.

Expanded 4th person perspective:
Self in embedded in history and multiple cultural contexts.

Autonomous persons become fine-tuned to their own psychological well-being. Theirs is a different emotional tone than that of Individualists, much less cynical and distrusting. Relativism changes into personal commitment and responsibility for creating one’s own meaning. Persons at this stage are attuned to their inner workings. They are now capable of rediscovering and owning parts of the self which have previously been disowned, because they seemed too confusing or too threatening. The shadow side of the self can be acknowledged to a greater degree and therefore a new integration and wholeness is possible. Although they experience role conflicts and dilemmas strongly, they recognize that these are inevitable and that ambivalent feelings are natural. Unlike those at even later stages, Autonomous persons try very hard to keep their act together and to come across as reasonable and mature. They feel themselves responsible for being able to orchestrate among conflicting needs and different subidentities and generally appear balanced.

Even more than at the Individualist stage, experiences are accepted for their immediate qualities. Distressing emotions become more tolerable, they can be acknowledged within oneself and shared with others. Autonomous persons have access to a logical system which can integrate psycho-logically paradoxical elements, therefore less energy needs to be spent on “defending.”

Realm: Society and others with similar convictions and principles

Time frame: own “history, lifetime” Cognition: 5b, metasystematic operations;

General systems thinker

Preoccupations: own development, self- actualization, self-fulfillment; processes

Positive equilibration: well-balanced body/mind integration; autonomous, tolerant, insightful, growth-oriented; high self-esteem; overarching principles

Truth: can be approximated; higher development is better since more complex arguments carry more weight than feeble ones. Higher is more adequate for functioning in an ever more complex global theatre. There are qualitative differences!

This in turn, allows them to be more tolerant and spontaneous than adults at conventional stages. Self and others are accepted as complex human beings with both good and bad traits. Exchange with others makes it possible to get in touch with aspects of the self or of one’s behavior one would otherwise tend to overlook. Good feedback makes one aware of what one is defending or blind to. One needs the caring presence of others to become the most one can be. Thus, others are vital to one’s well-being because only through a dynamic and intimate exchange with them can one gain deeper self-knowledge and wisdom. Mutual interdependence with other human beings is inevitable and experienced with awe and an awareness of one’s responsibility towards them. Autonomous persons can sometimes experience non-possessive love (or being love) because of this profound appreciation of other people as mirrors of themselves.

The greatest fear of Autonomous persons is to feel that they have not fulfilled their potential, or to have failed to observe those universal principles they value deeply (justice, tolerance, dignity of all people). Depression is often based on loss of courage, loss of self-agency and guilt for not having fulfilled one’s unique human promise. When using defenses, healthy Autonomous persons use mostly mature ones: suppression, altruism, humor, anticipation. When they use less mature defenses, they are able to forgive themselves and move on. “Right now I need to be like this, but I intend to act more maturely again when appropriate."

Inner processes are complex and demanding to observe. As much as Autonomous persons need others, they also need privacy, time for self-reflection. The self is experienced as unfolding and constantly reappraised. Watching this “unfolding” of things is one of the main satisfactions at this stage. One’s precious life work consists in trying “to become the most one can be.” Personal growth, self-actualization and self-fulfillment are chief desires at this stage. Others are seen as the actors in their life dramas, which are equally fascinating to Autonomous persons. Wanting to help others grow is one of the strongest motivators for Autonomous persons. Psychologists, coaches and consultants often inhabit this stage, as do effective executives and leaders. When this need to have others “become the most they can be” encounters resistance, Autonomous persons may feel impatient with others’ slow development and frustrated with their “unwillingness” to grow despite their efforts. This is likely the central flaw of this stage. Autonomous persons tend to be those most convinced that higher development is better and should be fostered at all costs. Higher is believed to be better because the more differentiated and the more autonomous an individual becomes, the more one can claim that one has an objective (non-distorted) and realistic self-identity (Kegan, 1982). One can claim an authentic, truthful self. Authenticity, is therefore an important value in the Autonomous value repertoire.

Many Autonomous persons see life as an open-ended journey. They believe that there is no predetermined way to follow for all human beings. Each individual has to find and create his/her own life style and is responsible for his or her self-fulfillment. Autonomous persons are interested in psychological questions and how to come to terms with inner conflict. Unlike people at the conventional stages, seeking therapy, advice, or consulting from others, is not seen as a weakness, but seen as a necessity. Autonomous persons have faith in their own and other people’s capacity to make meaning out of messes and difficulties. They can construe their own personal meaning without having to impose it on all others. They may also invite others’ solutions to conflict and respect their needs for autonomy. Sometimes Autonomous persons find the work to make a living and other ordinary constraints of life stultifying. They would prefer to enjoy their passions on their own terms. If leading an organization to greatness is one of those passions, it may be a fortuitous match.

Autonomous persons may genuinely feel principled anger and righteous indignation towards the injustices of the world. They will stand up against society to express their personal convictions or to uphold their principles. Their anger does not usually seek a victim. They live their personal conviction according to self-evaluated, internal standards. “To walk the talk” becomes an expression of one’s moral character and authenticity. Irreconcilable role conflicts are felt deeply. Some Autonomous persons become charismatic moral leaders. When they defend what they believe to be a worthy cause, they often disregard negative consequences for themselves. But they may also be overly forceful with their convictions especially when they are fueled by principled anger. The combination of charisma and moral conviction can be a powerful negative force if not kept in check.

The greater awareness of their inner depth also allows Autonomous persons to use dreams, fantasy, and imagination much more freely than persons at earlier stages. Their thoughts are allowed to take off and creativity is released. Their imagination is no longer constrained by logic and convention. Thinking outside the box is how one addresses issues. Because Autonomous persons are aware of human frailty as part of the human condition, they often express existential humor and their irony has a lighter touch than before.

Impulse control, character development: Self-evaluated, internalized standards. Behavior becomes an expression of one’s moral principles. Toleration of multiple points of view. Concern with conflicting roles, duties, principles.

Interpersonal style: One takes responsibility for relationships, but also desires autonomy. Relationships seen in terms of inevitable mutual interdependence. Toleration of others’ solutions to conflict. Respect for others’ autonomy. Non-hostile, existential humor.

Cognitive level: time frame and social context again expanded. Capacity to see and embrace some paradox and contradiction. Toleration of ambiguity. Broad scope of thought. Perception of self as regulator of a self-system with interdependent parts within a larger by context.

Conscious preoccupation: Concerned with individuality and self-fulfillment. Interested in the psychology of self. Coming to terms with conflicting needs.

Chief anxiety: not to fulfill one’s potentiality, to neglect those principles of justice, tolerance etc. one holds dear, loss of courage. Impatience with others’ slow development, and “unwillingness” to grow.

Internal dimension: One tries to make sense of oneself in terms of inner conflict and “polarities”. One tries to integrate into a coherent whole what one sees as one’s different selves at different times in different circumstances.

Defenses: Mostly mature ones: suppression, altruism, humor, anticipation. When using less mature defenses, one can be forgiving and understanding towards self. “Right now I need to be like this, but I will be able to act more maturely again later”.

Representatives: charismatic individuals who are ready for personal sacrifice in order to defend through personal example the moral principles they believe in.

Language clues: Autonomous persons use a complex, flexible syntax; with a wide array of topics and concerns. They try to do justice to the complexity of life in their verbal expressions. They try to present a coherent exposition of their thinking and themselves. They use differentiated psychological vocabulary and understand circular causality in human relations. “Identity, growth, higher principles, self-fulfillment” are favorite terms and topics."

[Nobody_Here]

On 8/29/2021 at 2:19 PM, mememe said:

i always think fully stepping into yellow means a yellow job.

What does “a yellow job” mean to you?

[KennedyCarter]

On 8/29/2021 at 2:04 PM, Nobody_Here said:

Saying “everything is relative” is more of a Green thing. Yellow can prioritize what perspective is best based on predefined criteria.

Wow smart way to put it.

[Leo Gura]

How non-judgmental are you of all other perspectives?

The hallmark of Yellow is such a deep understanding of perspectives that your judgment of them falls away. You no longer see perspectives as good or bad, right or wrong.

Green is very judgmental still.

Can you appreciate why all the perspectives exist?

[peanutspathtotruth]

@tuckerwphotography I really need to finally read her full paper... This stuff is so good! 

@bmcnicho One developmental branch within me has been dipping into yellow for years, but lately I'm having this intuition that I'm in the middle of finding myself really piercing through the dynamics that define this stage. What I personally see as signposts for that (and I could be wrong) are the following:

- I love thinking. After years of observation and an attempt to still the mind (which is still relevant and important), I deeply cherish the thinking process and its development into the lucid, revelatory sense-making tool that it is. Thought has its limits but I now appreciate how high that limit is and how far away I am from knowing what the upper bounds may hold. Most importantly, I honor the ability of thought to reveal truth, to interpret truth, to make sense of the world and to navigate it. 

- I deeply desire to understand. Everything. Utterly, completely, to the fullest. And although I know it's impossible as a cognitive task, this desire is burning like fire. It's a clear drive towards ultimate truth, but also towards the relative truths of the world. I am researching the very best books to read on any subject that I find interesting, and it's just too much. My list of books to read just keeps growing. Everything is incredibly fascinating, especially because I see how little I know. For example, I'd love to know everything about history. Everything. Africa's history. Europe's history. The history of the milky way, the history of the dinosaurs, of the physical universe at large, everything! All the big picture understanding as well as the zoomed in focused understanding. I want to understand why the world is exactly as it is right now, both metaphysically and from the perspective of cause-and-effect. Basically, I deeply desire to be all that is at once and to synthesize all experience into THE understanding. I know only the ever deepening fall into God realization is the way here. This leads to humility, the deep dive into spiritual work, but also into an interest to study what I can in this lifetime.

- People like Daniel Schachtenberger or Leo,  great meta sources, are the ones who attract me like crazy right now. 

 

Maybe you can relate to some of that. Despite it being just a model, I feel like this is one facet of stage yellow. 

Edited August 31, 2021 by peanutspathtotruth

[Nobody_Here]

58 minutes ago, KennedyCarter said:

Wow smart way to put it.

Thanks! In this sense, no perspective is entirely “right” or “wrong,” but some perspectives are better suited to the situation than others. Also, Yellow may have a preference on perspectives, but they are mature enough to say that their preferred way of doing things may not be the best way of handling a situation.

So, Yellow is not a black-or-white thinker like Blue is, but Yellow doesn't think all perspectives are completely equal like Green tends to say, either. 

[mememe]

9 hours ago, Nobody_Here said:

What does “a yellow job” mean to you?

a job with a network of people who have a mindset towards success, although success is more complex than monetary success in a yellow job it’s a solution/success. values in a job like that are often about integrity, yellow jobs are leaning towards making more conscious visions for the future happen changing ways of businesses which are stuck in old mindsets. that at least for the moment in development we are in. truly yellow are probably people who build businesses with different hierarchical structures who care more about their employees or tending towards building no profit organizations experimenting on the democratic aspects of business development with a perspective also towards the position of decisionmaker and individual capacities.

i think some of these jobs seem more orange because we are still living in a more orange world. a job (at least in a leading position) like that also can‘t be filled by an orange personality. it lives through a yellow personality. i also think some of these jobs might seem green depending on what the business content/value is. yellow jobs are virtuous cycle jobs.

Edited August 31, 2021 by mememe

[Nobody_Here]

@mememe There’s no such thing as a “yellow” or “orange” personality. I know plenty of people in orange who have networks of success. In fact, I don't find anything particularly yellow in your description of a “yellow” job--more orange-green. Yellow is more of a mindset or culture than a certain career path.

[hyruga]

If you are at true stage yellow, you no longer care what color you are in because You are non-judgemental.

You probably would have fed millions or done something of equal proportions by now if you are in stage yellow. Because a certain guy called Tony Robbins is only rated at stage orange here but he fed thousands to millions of people over last 40 years so if you are stage yellow, you probably have done more than him for society.

 

Edited August 31, 2021 by hyruga

[blackchair]

40 minutes ago, hyruga said:

If you are at true stage yellow, you no longer care what color you are in because You are non-judgemental.

You probably would have fed millions or done something of equal proportions by now if you are in stage yellow. Because a certain guy called Tony Robbins is only rated at stage orange here but he fed thousands to millions of people over last 40 years so if you are stage yellow, you probably have done more than him for society.

 

[mememe]

9 hours ago, Nobody_Here said:

@mememe There’s no such thing as a “yellow” or “orange” personality. I know plenty of people in orange who have networks of success. In fact, I don't find anything particularly yellow in your description of a “yellow” job--more orange-green. Yellow is more of a mindset or culture than a certain career path.

no, yellow has characteristics. there are def differences in personal development and personality typical tendency either towards the yellowish red colour spectrum or the turquoisish green colour spectrum and also leadership types in these aspects. if you were understanding what i‘m talking about you would be probably in yellow, at least mindset wise. the colors are not only mindsets they are systems thinking/interactive abilities, too. or do you think there are no red personality types? i was not saying that it‘s impossible to evolve from a blue/orange type towards more green and maybe step into visionary success oriented yellow (with the ability to integrate green thinking). but you know even understanding the spiral is relative at least to phenomenological observations. it also does not mean that yellowish people feel really good in orange jobs, they either change the job or they move towards other opportunities.

Edited August 31, 2021 by mememe
you probably meant theeee christopher robins