Men of the forum: Let's talk consent

[Preety_India]

@Johnny Galt I understood a bit about the mommy and daddy issues. 

But I'm facing difficulty in understanding the last paragraph of your post. I did not understand it at all. 

[Danioover9000]

@Thought Art

1 hour ago, Thought Art said:

I think the purpose of this thread is to talk about and share links with regards to men and raising our awareness around consent and being better partners, and lover makers.

I sense that a of men did not learn about consent as young people and I think it is a very important conversation.

I personally think that it's important we take a hard look at ourselves and our abilities to control sexual energy and to make sex safe and enjoyable for everyone. 

   The first issue is gonna be communication. If you don't speak straight forward, man or woman, you will be misunderstood, and conclude from there, either something is wrong with the other person, or something  is wrong with you. Feeling either is not a good place to be, which is why communication should be first priority. Now, as a guy, the ideal relationship with a woman, short term to long term, would be for him to feel like he's leading, like being a boyfriend, or a provider and protector matters, while the woman is not infringing on his purpose in life.

   There's almoet no escape from direct experience, or learning from failures as men.

   Ideally, intuition is helpful here, but most men don't have that level of intuition, and some need to explicate from the situation, sometimes many times, until they get it. Intuition is not only a natural gift, but a mileage, from gaining experience a lot. By definition, this already guarantees failures.

   Good luck telling most men to control their sexuality. Most common mistake is resisting and suppressing sexuality, and feeling horniness, which leads to other coping mechanisms that are not healthy, which sometimes develop into serious problems.

[Johnny Galt]

@Preety_India

No problem. I'll try to un-package this.

Here was the original post for this thread: 

"I think the purpose of this thread is to talk about and share links with regards to men and raising our awareness around consent and being better partners, and lover makers.

I sense that a of men did not learn about consent as young people and I think it is a very important conversation.

I personally think that it's important we take a hard look at ourselves and our abilities to control sexual energy and to make sex safe and enjoyable for everyone."

Core topics - awareness around consent, being a better partner, and better at making love.

Now, in regards to what I spoke to. Usually we are born into the world where we grow up with a mother and a father. This is what we know. This is our world. Our relationship with them, it shapes our world view and so in turn we tend to view others, men and woman, as we did our father and mother.  In turn we will bring this view into our romantic/sexual/intimate relationships. In a lot of situations, men will treat their woman/partner as there father treated there mother. The more unconscious they are the more this will happen. 

In regards to working consciously with sexual energy (the ancient art of semen retention) it involves the practice of circulating the arousal and sexual energy through out your body and much more. In turn, you can work with it to revitalize and regenerate your bodily systems. With this, when your not releasing the semen, rather retaining it, in turn you can build up quite an energetic field which is highly attractive to, both sexes. 

When I said - ("you'll exude this potent energy which means she may become intoxicated by you, and you may have to talk to her about consent and of how no means no") - I was being cheeky at this point, for when one has built up this sexual magnetic field/presence/energy, one becomes very attractive, and so in turn she may have troubles keeping her hands off of him.  

Did that makes sense? or did I just make things more confusing?

[Bando]

I didn't read the posts just thought id add my two cents about consent, building comfort, respecting boundaries and not trying to force a situation with "Anti-slut defence tactics" really helped me build better relationships with the women I date. When I first started my pua phase one of my sticking points was the last minute resistance i would get  when i'd get a chick back to my place.

I would try the two steps forward one step backwards, kino, wait 20 minutes if things didn't escalate id do it again until she said said a hard no or I got sex. I didn't even realize this was manipulative or shady until I started to notice my quality of relationships were really shitty and my retention rate was horrendous. I started asking girls for brutal honesty on why they ghosted me or ignored me and the common theme I got was being to "pushy" or "aggressive" or "fuck boy like" and I started to see the flaws of this whole "anti-slut defense LMR" worldview pua's push so much.

It didnt hit home until one of the girls I was with explained to me that the actions I did reminded her of her ex who was also pushy and would "pressure" her into sex or sexual acts she didnt like but didnt have the boundaries to deny him. She told me I reenacted those memories when she was first with me and that's what caused her to distance herself from me. 

I contemplated on what she said and reflected back on my experiences and started to notice a pattern on why I was having such a bad relationship streak and it clicked. 

Now when I invite a girl back to my place ill talk with her a while and then make my move and if I sense any hesitation or she says not today i wont try again for the rest of our interaction and would carry on with our experience together.  Ive definitely lost some girls by using this approach but the relationships I have now are much deeper than before and honestly the sex is better because the girl can relax knowing her boundaries are being respected. 

[Johnny Galt]

David Deida:

 

 

Book: Sexual Energy and Yoga

https://www.amazon.ca/Sexual-Energy-Yoga-Elisabeth-Haich/dp/0943358035

 

Book: The Art of Preservation: a sacred practice from ancient roots

https://www.amazon.com/Art-Preservation-sacred-practice-ancient/dp/1675122059

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Johnny Galt
spelling mistake

[Flowerfaeiry]

Most of the men on this forum probably don't have a problem with consent. 

1 hour ago, Bando said:

one of the girls I was with explained to me that the actions I did reminded her of her ex who was also pushy and would "pressure" her into sex or sexual acts she didnt like but didnt have the boundaries to deny him.

I've slept with plenty of men on the first, second or third date and have never felt pressured. 

That woman likely is not very developed. Her lack of boundaries is her responsibility. If she was repeatedly denying her boyfriend sex then yes, things will get ugly. If he's constantly trying to bang her that's a problem too but that's a less common situation.  

Obviously there is a line where the pushing becomes unhealthy, but in most relationships when women deny their boyfriends sex there is something deeper going on and it doesn't have to do with "consent". 

In terms of dating, a lot of women (girls) are simply inexperienced. 

[The0Self]

4 hours ago, Preety_India said:

A no is a no. 

 

A yes is not always a yes. 

 

A no is not always a no. 

 

Shit is confusing. Lol. 

 

(*feels sorry for men. I understand the struggle ) 

Yeah it’s quite intuitive and can’t always be taught. Not sure how to raise awareness about this stuff without being a party pooper. I’ve never had an issue with it; just always intuitively read into the woman’s intuition. Can’t imagine teaching that to someone. Sometimes I begin having sex with my girlfriend out of nowhere without even asking and in fact basically by surprise — obviously does not work in all or even an appreciable amount of situations.

[Preety_India]

Just now, The0Self said:

Yeah it’s quite intuitive and can’t always be taught. Not sure how to raise awareness about this stuff without being a party pooper. I’ve never had an issue with it; just always intuitively read into the woman’s intuition. Can’t imagine teaching that to someone. Sometimes I begin having sex with my girlfriend out of nowhere without even asking and in fact basically by surprise — obviously does not work in all or even an appreciable amount of situations.

Haha you're describing situation with your girlfriend, that's super easy. 

I was talking about women that you meet at a club or women who you been for the first time. Now that's gonna be a challenge. 

 

[The0Self]

1 minute ago, Preety_India said:

Haha you're describing situation with your girlfriend, that's super easy. 

I was talking about women that you meet at a club or women who you been for the first time. Now that's gonna be a challenge. 

 

Yes, certainly.

[hamedsf]

the problem with most of men is that they put the pussy on the pedestal, getting disrespected and still jumping through hoops. I wouldn't be able to get up my dick for the woman who would try to disrespect me.

well, the solution is: don't be a thirsty guy and value your sexual energy.

I still don't mean stop dating or sexual affairs but what I mean is that you could invest that energy into making money, creating stuff, heavy sports and so on and so forth. 

[gettoefl]

i'll throw this into the mix

until a person says no, they cannot say yes, you cannot trust their yes

they are simply going along with the game to see where it leads

this applies to any relationship and is not about sex

FORCE a person to say no if you want things real

and remember this post is not about sex 

after they say no, the yes is then trustworthy

[Thought Art]

5 hours ago, The0Self said:

Yeah it’s quite intuitive and can’t always be taught. Not sure how to raise awareness about this stuff without being a party pooper. I’ve never had an issue with it; just always intuitively read into the woman’s intuition. Can’t imagine teaching that to someone. Sometimes I begin having sex with my girlfriend out of nowhere without even asking and in fact basically by surprise — obviously does not work in all or even an appreciable amount of situations.

Yeah me as well. I found that I've mostly been pretty good at reading signals. But, I am sure I made some mistakes. 

But, a lot of men I know have no idea. Men are clueless about female psychology and body language etc. 

 

[Danioover9000]

@gettoefl

6 hours ago, gettoefl said:

i'll throw this into the mix

until a person says no, they cannot say yes, you cannot trust their yes

they are simply going along with the game to see where it leads

this applies to any relationship and is not about sex

FORCE a person to say no if you want things real

and remember this post is not about sex 

after they say no, the yes is then trustworthy

   This does cut through most of the bullshit quickly.

[SgtPepper]

As a man, you are taking a risk when you go the club and have sex intoxicated. The reality is a girl can consent and still regret it the next day, and accuse you of rape. I personally would avoid that lifestyle.

I have a traditional perspective and I think a man should get to know a woman first. Both parties should be able to get along and enjoy themselves way before sex even comes into the relationship. The consent will be clearer once you actually know your partner because you will know their signals, learn their boundaries, and her body will open up and she will pull you in. 

 

[Emerald]

17 hours ago, Thought Art said:

I think the purpose of this thread is to talk about and share links with regards to men and raising our awareness around consent and being better partners, and lover makers.

I sense that a of men did not learn about consent as young people and I think it is a very important conversation.

I personally think that it's important we take a hard look at ourselves and our abilities to control sexual energy and to make sex safe and enjoyable for everyone. 

One thing, from the female perspective, that I’ve noticed in one-night stands that I’ve had (but didn’t really want to have), is that the men interpreted my lack of boundaries as genuine interest… either that or they just didn’t care.

In one experience, at age 20, I went over to a guy’s house for Christmas dinner expecting that it would be quite a lot of people. And it was just him and a couple other people.

I agreed to go in the first place because my life had just fallen apart in so many ways. And I would otherwise spend Christmas completely alone. I knew what he wanted but I couldn’t really say no to company and I just rationalized that I’d turn down any advances.

And I said no like seven or eight times of him being very forward and handsy before he wore me down. I ended up thinking in my head that there’s a slight chance that he might rape me if I don’t consent. So, I decided that consenting was the best way to feel in control of the situation.

And my guess is that, from his perspective, his persistence got me in touch with what I actually wanted. Like before, I was trying to be a good girl. But his persistence helped me let go of my inhibitions so that I could give into my carnal desires.

But it truly wasn’t the case. I was just very alone in the world and coming off of a very traumatic period in my life. And I just didn’t have the wherewithal to set my boundaries.

[Nos7algiK]

When the topic of consent is brought up it in a public space it always becomes one of the most surreal things discussed. The amount of people who truly don't understand consent, or have very warped ideas/justifications around it, is pretty astounding. 

[Surfingthewave]

22 hours ago, Emerald said:

And I said no like seven or eight times of him being very forward and handsy before he wore me down. I ended up thinking in my head that there’s a slight chance that he might rape me if I don’t consent. So, I decided that consenting was the best way to feel in control of the situation.

You've just described a very common experience. You said no clearly and he didn't stop. There's the problem. 

In my opinion, consenting to feel in control of a situation isn't consent, that's more self protection. 

This is a very important topic of discussion. I recommend watching a BBC TV series called I May Destroy You, made in the UK. It's all about consent but - trigger warning - it may be a difficult watch for anyone who has experienced sexual assault. 

Someone mentioned communication earlier, this is key. If in any doubt about consent, communicate. If a person says no, it means no, if they say yes, they mean yes.  There's no grey area here.

[somegirl]

This is how it should be done:

We talk about sex BEFORE we do anything and if a women says she is not comfortable to have an intercourse without condom, that should be more important than a man's "uncomfortable feeling" when using a condom (that's such a BS of an excuse, as there are many brands and sizes that can fit any guy's needs and feels like you have nothing on). 
Then, when we get to it, PREVIOUS AGREEMENT STILL FREAKING STANDS NO MATTER WHAT. If we agreed to have sex WITH protection, nothing should change that agreement in the middle of sex (guy not being able to put on condoms and emptying a full box of condom because of it SHOULD NOT GIVE HIM THE RIGHT TO CHANGE PREVIOUS AGREEMENT WE HAD). That's boundary violation. And it is against my consent!

Sorry, this was just my personal experience that I'm still dealing with. 
Hope this helps guys understand what consent means, cause it's not freaking hard if you listen.

[SgtPepper]

Think about it though. Most people on this forum talk about sex like its no big deal, and its normal or even good to just go out and have a one night stand.

There's no sense of respect or reverence for the activity. So of course people have very confused ideas about how to set boundaries around it and guys will act like its not a big deal because it's just sex right?

Most of these consent issues would go away if people actually treated sex with the respect it deserves. 

Having sex is a vulnerable and intimate experience, so of course if you do it with a person you don't 100% trust, you will get traumatized. It's like tripping without taking care of set and setting. 

[somegirl]

@SgtPepper So true. It can leave young person traumatized/develop bad view of sex if it's done in unsafe environment or with a person that doesn't take what you say seriously. And it's so sad because usually young guys, but especially girls, are not assertive enough to set boundaries in the beginning. It's SO important to learn to say "No" assertively, to protect yourself and future regret.