Men of the forum: Let's talk consent

[Thought Art]

I think the purpose of this thread is to talk about and share links with regards to men and raising our awareness around consent and being better partners, and lover makers.

I sense that a of men did not learn about consent as young people and I think it is a very important conversation.

I personally think that it's important we take a hard look at ourselves and our abilities to control sexual energy and to make sex safe and enjoyable for everyone. 

[Preety_India]

A no is a no. 

 

A yes is not always a yes. 

 

A no is not always a no. 

 

Shit is confusing. Lol. 

 

(*feels sorry for men. I understand the struggle ) 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Preety_India

[Thought Art]

@Preety_India Men please

Good comment though.

We need to explore this nuance. Something tells me it's beyond language and requires high emotional intelligence.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Thought Art

[Preety_India]

@Thought Art ladies first. 

[Tudo]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

 

 

A yes is not always a yes. 

 

 

wtf

[Preety_India]

Just now, Tudo said:

wtf

You don't know women. It's ok. Happens. 

 

[Thought Art]

4 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Thought Art ladies first. 

hmm, I understand. I was hoping to speak with my brothers in this specific forum. But, I am okay with opening it up. I understand anyone has a right to post if they don't want to respect my intentions.

I thought it would be a beautiful thing if Men had this conversation! 

But, yea, maybe it's best if it is opened to everyone.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Thought Art

[Federico del pueblo]

2 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

You don't know women. It's ok. Happens. 

 

That was a somewhat manipulative Statement...

[Thought Art]

3 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

That was a somewhat manipulative Statement...

I felt the same way, it was a bit painful for me to read that. I wasn't sure what her tone was. I feel a bit vulnerable, or wary of upsetting women with this subject, but sense it's important.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Thought Art

[Tudo]

5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

You don't know women. It's ok. Happens. 

 

I understand what you mean. Most women sometimes have the instinct to mean different things from what they say. But I think it's time to women force themselves to be extremy clear about what they want or not when it's about consent.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Tudo

[Thought Art]

6 minutes ago, Tudo said:

I understand what you mean. Most women sometimes have the instinct to mean different things from what they say. But I think it's time to women force themselves to be extremy clear about what they want or not when it's about consent.

I sense the main dialogue in pop culture is that it's mostly men who need to work on reading women and respecting consent. 

I personally know a lot of men who do not understand women at all, and come on to strong. Perhaps over text, or in person. 

I sense that, yea sometimes it's hard to know if a women wants the intimacy but also, its usually pretty clear if she is having a good time with you and she is like, kissing you first or etc. and you can simply ask her "is this okay?" "Maybe I give you a hug?" and then, not being to desperate and accepting the no.

I also think it's important to understand the context and type of relationship you have with people, and to be able to feel women's energy and signs. 

I also think a lot of men carry shame around their sexual history, or worry they will make mistakes in the future because a lot of men don't understand their own sexuality let alone women's.

Edited August 29, 2021 by Thought Art

[Preety_India]

@Federico del pueblo  @Thought Art

@Tudo

You guys need to take the chill pill. 

Chill guys. Chill chill. 

Don't jump to some evil conclusion right away. 

Learn to read properly. 

Women are difficult to read. 

Even I can't read other women. (*spits her drink, lol spitting facts.) 

Women can give confusing signals.

Women sometimes don't know what they say. They are not sure of what they want. 

Women themselves are often quite confused. I mean confooozed.

 

So you have to put extra effort to understand exactly what a Woman means 

Moral of the story 

Don't jump the gun with a woman. 

Have patience boys. Have patience. 

Learn to read between the lines. Ask a woman in different ways. Be smart. 

But don't rely on her every word. 

You're not a woman. So you don't understand.. 

A woman can have mood swings. Learn to deal with it. 

Now if a woman is too too confusing, I advise to stay away from such women you're dodging a bullet.

 

[Preety_India]

12 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

I felt the same way, it was a bit painful for me to read that. I wasn't sure what her tone was. I feel a bit vulnerable, or wary of upsetting women with this subject, but sense it's important.

You seem to be pretty good at understanding women 

Which university did you attend? 

Send other guys to that same university. 

 

[Preety_India]

@Thought Art the only thing I can tell you is that women are tough to handle. There's nothing you can do about it. Just deal with it. I don't mean this in a gaslighting /manipulative or condescending way. I mean it in an accepting way. 

The best advice from my years of growing up around females is that it's always best to stay away from women who cause too drama in your life. 

If a woman is overly dramatic, best to drop her because she is just a bundle of problems one way or another. 

Women don't like to say it because they want some sort of fake feminist solidarity. 

If a woman is not very clear of her intentions with you, don't give her the benefit of the doubt, just drop her and move on 

 

You will definitely find women who are clearer and more open and honest if you look hard enough. They won't put you in trouble unnecessarily.

They won't be manipulative. They won't treat you badly. They won't play mind games. 

Hard to find such women because a lot of women are used to drama and almost addicted to it. 

Important is not whether you understand a woman (or not). Important is to set boundaries as a man. Very strict boundaries that are punishable if broken. Learn to punish a woman if she does wrong to you rather than treating it like some coded mystery. 

Most men who simply put up with such women are low self worth men even if they pretend to be high value or smart. 

 

 

[Federico del pueblo]

20 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Federico del pueblo  @Thought Art

@Tudo

You guys need to take the chill pill. 

Chill guys. Chill chill. 

Don't jump to some evil conclusion right away. 

Learn to read properly. 

Women are difficult to read. 

Even I can't read other women. (*spits her drink, lol spitting facts.) 

Women can give confusing signals.

Women sometimes don't know what they say. They are not sure of what they want. 

Women themselves are often quite confused. I mean confooozed.

 

So you have to put extra effort to understand exactly what a Woman means 

Moral of the story 

Don't jump the gun with a woman. 

Have patience boys. Have patience. 

Learn to read between the lines. Ask a woman in different ways. Be smart. 

But don't rely on her every word. 

You're not a woman. So you don't understand.. 

A woman can have mood swings. Learn to deal with it. 

Now if a woman is too too confusing, I advise to stay away from such women you're dodging a bullet.

 

I was very chilled when I wrote that comment.

Don't  be so immune to some minor criticism, it was justified as you clearly portrayed yourself as the judge of the situation who can evaluate whether Tudo understands women based on his three letter post, but who is also entitled enough to tell him that it's ok because it happens.

I would suggest to not jump to some evil conclusions right away

If that was not your intention, no problem, just learn to write properly.

Ok, back to topic.

Well, all of these other things I pretty much agree on. Women do send confusing signals and it takes effort to read them properly. I believe its reasonable to make some effort to understand women better, but within reason, as you can also become kind of neurotic about it, trying very hard to understand absolutely every tiny signal.

 

I would still want to assume that if a women is asked if she wants to have sex and says "yes" then this also means "yes" unless it's blatantly obvious that she doesn't want to have sex but still agrees.

If that is not the case anymore then we unnecessarily victimize women, pretending as though they were unable to say no, even though they have all the right to say no.

This is of course not to say that women are not sometimes actually a victim of abuse, of course this happens too.

[Preety_India]

2 minutes ago, Federico del pueblo said:

I was very chilled when I wrote that comment.

Don't  be so immune to some minor criticism, it was justified as you clearly portrayed yourself as the judge of the situation who can evaluate whether Tudo understands women based on his three letter post, but who is also entitled enough to tell him that it's ok because it happens.

I would suggest to not jump to some evil conclusions right away

If that was not your intention, no problem, just learn to write properly.

Ok, back to topic.

Well, all of these other things I pretty much agree on. Women do send confusing signals and it takes effort to read them properly. I believe its reasonable to make some effort to understand women better, but within reason, as you can also become kind of neurotic about it, trying very hard to understand absolutely every tiny signal.

 

I would still want to assume that if a women is asked if she wants to have sex and says "yes" then this also means "yes" unless it's blatantly obvious that she doesn't want to have sex but still agrees.

If that is not the case anymore then we unnecessarily victimize women, pretending as though they were unable to say no, even though they have all the right to say no.

This is of course not to say that women are not sometimes actually a victim of abuse, of course this happens too.

Sorry if my words to Tudo came off as patronizing. I honestly thought that he didn't have much experience with women or didn't know female nature. 

To your other points. 

My focus was diverted to women in relationships, it was a bit away from the topic which was probably about on the spot consent. I absolutely agree with you that women have the right to say no. But think of it this way, do women really exercise this right effectively? Having a right and exercising that right are two different things. How do you judge a situation where a woman doesn't use her own good judgement and yet plays a victim. This is complex. It is not about victimizing women (that they were unable to say no) but understanding that they still won't do it, despite given that right and privilege. In that case, exercise your own judgement. A woman can sue a man with sexual harassment even if she said yes to that opportunity of consensual sex. You see now? This is where it gets confusing, it's not about portraying her as a victim. It's about her taking advantage (reasons Can be attributed to anything, some people call it mental illness, I call it manipulation), of the system that doesn't carry self accountability or proper judgement. You need extremely high intelligence to understand women, especially predatory women, basically the intelligence of being able to separate the wheat from the chaff, for this man has to be very developed on his Spiral he himself should have high intelligence, strong values, high integrity and better boundaries. 

Men who lack high quality, high intelligence, boundaries and high integrity are the ones who fall prey to such women first and foremost, so it's not so much about women giving mixed signals, it's men who haven't grown up emotionally and psycho emotionally in terms of EQ. I'm talking some high level stuff here if you care to read between the lines. 

 

[Federico del pueblo]

Got it. It's complicated stuff. If you want to be on the safe side as a man, just don't have sex, there always remains a risk.

I mean in the end if a woman wants to accuse you of rape even though it was consensual sex then you still have a problem.

I think the OP referred to men being unable to tell if there is consent for sex or not due to a lack of communication, but then just assuming that there must have been consent because they didn't hear a "no".

 

 

[Johnny Galt]

@Preety_India "ladies first" - I got your humour and I appreciated it  I laughed out loud but then I saw the following comments and I frowned

 

To the others in this thread who got triggered, I'd have look into mommy and daddy issues. Truth is most have these issues, myself included, and it took years of work to deal with this. In dealing with this, we can then better deal with our sexual nature and in turn women will levitate towards you because they feel safe. How does mommy and daddy issues correlate to sex and woman?, as a generalization, as we view our mother we view other women, unconsciously speaking. 

Also, in "containing" your sexual potency, and working with it consciously to awaken and for creative purposes, meaning rather then down and out, how about up and in? In turn you'll exude this potent energy which means she may become intoxicated by you. If you get good at this you may have to talk to her about consent and of how no means no ;P

[Preety_India]

@Johnny Galt I did not understand you at all. You weren't clear enough. 

[Johnny Galt]

@Preety_India Did you understand my first phrase? 

My second paragraph was more directed to the men and so they might get it. And after re-reading a few of the messages I would retract my "triggered" comment and I kinda went into topics that might not have been relevant to what the original post was focused on. I should probably go give it another read. 

 

Edited August 29, 2021 by Johnny Galt
spelling mistake