There isn't a you and no thing is missing

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@VeganAwake I keep asking the questions like the interviewer in your video, and then laugh because I know what jim newman is going to say. Up until the last question.

-Okay but there needs to be a path.

-->What's taking the path?

-Okay but I had experiences of no-self.

-->What had experiences of no self.

-So what do I do now? Meditate or not meditate?

-->It doesn't matter there's no-one to meditate. The false sense of self wants to practice.

-Okay, but how do I get towards enlightenment faster?

-->There's no enlightenment. Nothing happens.

-So I've wasted all these years of seeking for nothing? All of this suffering?

--> Seeking just happened, there was no you controling it. Just thoughts and an experience of self and activities.

-But what do I do now? 

--> There's already a "happening" it's the belief in a you that believes it has to make a decision to get somewhere.

-I like doing that, I'm deconstructing my own self.

--> You're not doing anything it's just thoughts happening.

-But ehm, now, I want to do something about it. Can I just continue to deconstruct myself and write the paradox about me deconstructing a self on the actualized forum?

--> This would be practice, an attempt from a belief in you to continue to deconstruct the belief in you.

-So should I stop practicing? Continue listening to Jim Newman videos or just keep away from it.

--> None of these. Don't watch the videos and don't not-watch the videos. There's no right thoughts to have, or to find or to change or to stop. There's no practice, and there's no stopping practice. 

-But what if enlightenment never happens or takes way too long or if I forget that. 

--> The paradox is looking for it, its the false sense of self looking for it.

-I feel like a separate self, now what do we do? What do I do? Suffering occurs.

-->The separate self feels it needs to do something about something again.

-How can I stop it?

--> You can't

-Ok so the I (me) will either want enlightenment, which I cant get to. Or fesr it which I can't stop. I'm confused.

How do I stop un-enlightening myself?

There's no prescription because it's a non-happening meaning something stops that was never actually happening. 

It was just recognized one day that this "sense of I" was like an assumed fabrication held together with a bunch of stories about who I thought I was. It felt like everything I thought I knew or believed to be real was crumbling away.

This assumed self structure went from a solid brick wall, to a house of cards, to being recognized it was never real at all and that nothing actually happened.

It was an unhappening.

Take a very close look at this so-called "self".

❤

[Vladimir]

"YOU" is the only thing that is "REAL" nothing else matters. "YOU" are the world, you are "EVERYTHING", you are the only one who can know the TRUTH, everything else is "you trying to get your truth from somebody else".

[VeganAwake]

12 hours ago, Vladimir said:

"YOU" is the only thing that is "REAL" nothing else matters. "YOU" are the world, you are "EVERYTHING", you are the only one who can know the TRUTH, everything else is "you trying to get your truth from somebody else".

Then that's what's being experienced there.

Its whole, complete and perfect. ❤

[snowyowl]

18 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

There's no prescription because it's a non-happening meaning something stops that was never actually happening. 

It was just recognized one day that this "sense of I" was like an assumed fabrication held together with a bunch of stories about who I thought I was. It felt like everything I thought I knew or believed to be real was crumbling away.

This assumed self structure went from a solid brick wall, to a house of cards, to being recognized it was never real at all and that nothing actually happened.

It was an unhappening.

Take a very close look at this so-called "self".

I find this language very challenging to understand (perhaps that's the point). If nothing's happening from the start, how can there be a stopping? Isn't it easier to say that an illusion is happening, which then stops happening, in the sense that it's seen to be an illusion. But the true reality, which was being misinterpreted in the illusion, continues, seen clearly. 

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, snowyowl said:

I find this language very challenging to understand (perhaps that's the point).

There isn't a point and its so already the case that it seems hidden.

If nothing's happening from the start, how can there be a stopping?

The word stopping is just used to describe what seems to happen. It's just an expression for communication purposes.

Isn't it easier to say that an illusion is happening, which then stops happening, in the sense that it's seen to be an illusion.

It's just like thinking your dog is outside on a leash only to walk outside and realize it got loose.

The entire experience of believing your dog was on a leash the whole time was an illusion. So in that sense the experience was real and simultaneously unreal because the dog was not on the leash.

But the true reality, which was being misinterpreted in the illusion, continues, seen clearly.

Basically yes, and that's the weird part....it seems completely real until it's recognized as having never been. 

❤

 

[SQAAD]

There is nothing to do (this can be interpreted wrongly though). Everything has already happenened. This is the most liberating aspect of awakening. You realise that all your worries were delusions.

[VeganAwake]

1 hour ago, SQAAD said:

There is nothing to do (this can be interpreted wrongly though). Everything has already happenened. This is the most liberating aspect of awakening. You realise that all your worries were delusions.

It's recognized the individual that worried, believed there is nothing to do and that everything has already happened is completely unreal.

Its that free ❤

[Nahm]

4 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's recognized the individual that worried, believed there is nothing to do and that everything has already happened is completely unreal.

Its that free ❤

?? 

[The0Self]

8 hours ago, SQAAD said:

There is nothing to do (this can be interpreted wrongly though). Everything has already happenened. This is the most liberating aspect of awakening. You realise that all your worries were delusions.

It’s really not all that liberating when no one and no reality is left. And as soon as it’s recognized, it’s too late. The worst experience is then equal to the very best one. Party’s over ? 

It also is of course absolute liberation. But who is liberated?

Edited September 4, 2021 by The0Self

[snowyowl]

22 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

It's just like thinking your dog is outside on a leash only to walk outside and realize it got loose.

The entire experience of believing your dog was on a leash the whole time was an illusion. So in that sense the experience was real and simultaneously unreal because the dog was not on the leash.

What we have is sense perceptions, and stories (thoughts). That's it. There's one story of my dog on the leash, another story of my dog not on the leash. The second story is in accordance with my visual perception of seeing it. There's no real vs unreal distinction, because that's just another story: that sense perception implies an objective reality "out there". 

At least that's the phenomenal perspective: everything is appearance. The flip side is the noumenal perspective: everything is real in itself, independent of mind. There's still an illusion, but in this case the illusion is that mind exists independently of the objective reality. 

The secret I can't talk about however is when the phenomenon and the noumenon both collapse, are both seen to be stories. 

Edited September 5, 2021 by snowyowl

[VeganAwake]

3 hours ago, snowyowl said:

What we have is sense perceptions, and stories (thoughts). That's it. There's one story of my dog on the leash, another story of my dog not on the leash. The second story is in accordance with my visual perception of seeing it. There's no real vs unreal distinction, because that's just another story: that sense perception implies an objective reality "out there". 

Just referring to how the experience of assuming the dog was on the leash and assuming I am a separate person is similar.

When it's recognized the self structure is completely unreal its simultaneously revealed that  separation is an impossibility because there is no one which could be separate.

Everything could be referred to as just stories because there's no real meaning or purpose behind anything.

❤

[snowyowl]

@VeganAwake  I'm slowly taking this in (contemplation takes me as long as it takes I'm afraid). The analogy of my dog on a leash outside seems to imply an objective existence of the actual dog, about which I can have subjective illusions and stories. 

"Everything could be referred to as just stories because there's no real meaning or purpose behind anything."

So if everything's a story, then why would we distinguish between true vs untrue, or real vs unreal stories when there's nothing absolute to compare them with? 

On the other hand, if there's an appearance (or story) that I'm separate, as I believe right now, isn't that the truth? Then another time when I have a mystical glimpse of oneness and wholeness, then that appearance is also the truth? 

From the pov of wholeness, separation is illusion; from the pov of separation, wholeness is illusion. 

I must still be missing something.  

[VeganAwake]

9 hours ago, snowyowl said:

On the other hand, if there's an appearance (or story) that I'm separate, as I believe right now, isn't that the truth? Then another time when I have a mystical glimpse of oneness and wholeness, then that appearance is also the truth? 

It's not really an appearance, it's an experience. An illusion that has the ability to cause a reaction or experience. Like seeing a mirage of water in the desert, the body will immediately become excited and start salivating and becoming thirsty. Although the water wasn't real, it causes a reaction/experience in the body. The experience of being a separate individual is similar to this.... for example if somebody calls 'you' a dumb shit, it feels like a localized experience within the body. So it could be said the experience is real but under a false presumption.

From the pov of wholeness, separation is illusion; from the pov of separation, wholeness is illusion.

Wholeness is just another word everything. Wholeness isn't an experience, it's a recognition that the individual that seems to be within the body never existed leaving everything/wholeness/not 2/nonduality/adviata/infinity/absolute/god/beloved.... all the same pointer 

A real and simultaneously unreal experience.

I must still be missing something.  

Nothing is missing it just seems to be.

❤

 

Edited September 9, 2021 by VeganAwake

[Breakingthewall]

On 4/9/2021 at 3:37 PM, The0Self said:

It’s really not all that liberating when no one and no reality is left. And as soon as it’s recognized, it’s too late. The worst experience is then equal to the very best one. Party’s over ? 

It also is of course absolute liberation. But who is liberated?

You sound like liberation is ... disappointing ?? . There was no party, just a crazed rat running on its  wheel thinking it was moving forward. liberation is taking that rat out of the equation. absolutely liberating. Who is liberated? The experience, that can flow without crazy rats interpreting everything according to his crazy criteria. Because there is a you: the reality, totally impersonal but existent, undoubtedly. infinitely richer than the wretched rat

Edited September 9, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[VeganAwake]

2 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

You sound like liberation is ... disappointing ?? . There was no party, just a crazed rat running on its  wheel thinking it was moving forward. liberation is taking that rat out of the equation. absolutely liberating. Who is liberated? The experience, that can flow without crazy rats interpreting everything according to his crazy criteria. Because there is a you: the reality, totally impersonal but existent, undoubtedly. infinitely richer than the wretched rat

? Yes, the sense of self would expect there to be a grand firework show, but it can also be quite ordinary.... it's never what's expected that's for sure.

Liberation isn't a particular state of mind or particular experience within everything..... it's not exclusive it's all inclusive.

Simultaneously you don't become a meditating pacifist where everything just slides by without any judgment or skepticism whatsoever. If that was the case It would be very difficult to function in society, it's actually the opposite because without ME decisions can be made rather quick and easy without distraction as you mentioned.

Liberation is recognizing there already isn't a YOU.

That's why it's common to hear the phrase "Enlightenment is already the case".

The individual isn't a real entity it just seems to be. ❤

 

 

 

 

[Breakingthewall]

2 hours ago, VeganAwake said:

Simultaneously you don't become a meditating pacifist where everything just slides by without any judgment or skepticism whatsoever. If that was the case It would be very difficult to function in society,

You don't become a pacifist guy who meditates all day and doesn't care about everything, but you could. But the rat is always there, lurking. We have grown feeding the rat, it's never going to dissapear imo. as things get a little ugly, it goes for a run. the rat is very useful, it just can't take full control, that's not its position

Edited September 9, 2021 by Breakingthewall