Whats my next step towards enlightenment? Guide me with a spiritual assessment.

[Endangered-EGO]

Is it really a pointer if the pointer makes no sense.

 

Or to put it better: Is it the right pointer?

How do you know if there's a right pointer in a certain situation.

 

Does anyone feel ready to make a spiritual assessment for me? 

Ask me question or lead me towards the next "step".

Also feel free to write "There's no I that needs to follow a path". And "The I that's following a path is not there etc."

I'm going to answer everything. Feel free to continue the assessment, here's the student asking the teacher for help:

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I had glimpses, or awakenings, I had DPDR nothingness in the past. I've lived from the dissociated dreamstate. Afterwards I still suffered and even more. It was the most terrifying, intense time of my life.

How do I experience life now? Anhedonia. I don't feel anything really. It's depression with a lot of anhedonia.

What am I? Fundamentally, I am in every percept and object, but I also have a sense of self. The combination of feeling my head, and seeing things. My head feels like the HQ of control.

I also have memories and fantasies. Memories happened, because I can try to remember something, and I'll have memories about it, and until now bieving my memories always worked.

 

When I just stop, or let go (during meditation) there's a deep knowing that consciousness exists. "I know that I am" even before I ask the question.

 

However, I dont experience eternity anymore, I very very rarely merge with the object of perception, and I suffer, which is the worst thing I want to get rid of. Sometimes it's really bad, and I'm not even able to compare it or quantify it.

 

My life is not about beauty or pleasure or curiosity, it's mainly about escape, finding a solution to suffering and freeing myself from the burden of existence/incarnation.

It's all about preventing suffering for tomorrow and truth. If truth was we're in Hell I want to know that we're in hell.

I sometimes even consciously inflict suffering with cold showers, sauna and SDS, just to inquiry about suffering and how to transcend it once and for all.

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I've never had a spiritual assessment done to me, and I know that a 1on1 IS necessary, but I guess that if I start to do it here it could be useful for everybody.

[KennedyCarter]

*loud speaker phone noise* “Sir this is McDonalds”!

 

haha in all seriousness, what you wrote was beautiful. However, I understood nothing. Now I have answers to questions I didn’t know I had. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[Endangered-EGO]

@KennedyCarter Feel free to write down the answers to the questions you didn't know you had.

 

"And a chicken Mcnuggets, fries with a diet coke please."

[TrippyMindSubstance]

My assessment:

The first thing I would tell you is that basically everything you wrote in your post is just your mind going crazy. So many "concepts", and it appears that you're not currently aware that this present moment is "empty" and blissful, until your mind starts adding so much "baggage" to it. What reeeally helped me with this was Leo's episode "What is actuality". If you've seen it, I would recommend re-watching it again and then going back and re-reading your post to see how much "concept and imagination" you are lost in.

Secondly, and at this moment probably more importantly, is that it sounds like you are currently suffering from some depression, and are using spirituality to try and escape from it. The paradox here is that the "spirituality" in this approach will only push you further into depression, anhedonia, etc. and the most "spiritual" thing you can do is actually deal with your depression in the "real world". 

You state that you suffer. You state that "My life is not about beauty or pleasure or curiosity, it's mainly about escape, finding a solution to suffering and freeing myself from the burden of existence/incarnation. It's all about preventing suffering for tomorrow and truth."

Without giving a "spiritual" answer, what exactly is causing your suffering? Give me a "real world" answer, for example, "I hate my job", "It's too difficult to work 8 hours a day", "I don't find joy in things even when I'm not working", "I wish I had a beautiful girlfriend", "I wish I had enough money to just meditate and pursue enlightenment freely all day, but I have to work" etc.

Once you identify what these problems are, you will notice that there are obstacles to overcoming them. Overcoming those obstacles are your path to enlightenment. Enlightenment requires mastery of the mind in a sense, and it should quickly become clear that your mind is the only thing preventing you from overcoming your problems. Overcoming the next obstacle towards your next goal is your "next step towards enlightenment", not sitting around meditating, looking for an "I", looking for "eternity" etc.. That will all come in due time, but at the moment, I believe you will find the most spiritual gains and understanding about your "self" from being honest with yourself about what you actually want from life, and trying to get it. 

You might think that changing your external circumstances won't make you happy. But do you actually know that? Have you had everything you've wanted in life and still been in a position where all you cared about was escape and preventing the suffering of tomorrow? Or do you just feel that way because you're genuinely unhappy with where you are in life at the moment and deep down you still wish you had money or relationships or whatever, and because you can't get those, you're seeking out the alternative which is spirituality and "enlightenment". Obviously I could be wrong, but I'm curious about the answer to that. 

[impulse9]

Listen to nothing for 10 minutes every day.

[Raptorsin7]

@Endangered-EGO Cool post.

I'm at a similar point on the path, and I've begun to appreciate how important basic discipline is when you're stuck.

I've had a few peak experiences and I'm basically stuck trying to get back to that place with meditation and psychs

I've been stuck in a loop these past few months where I'll feel like I'm on meditation session away from having a break through, only to spend a few days thinking I'm completely stuck and this pattern just keeps on going.

At least for me I've realized I have aversion to disgust and vomitting. and I've completely repressed my sexual energy. All my best psychidelic trips were a result of feeling deeply into disgust and my stomach, and liberating sexual energy so I'm more horny. Interestingly, the sexuality actually decreases my nausea and the only solution to the nausea is either repeated vomiting or the sexual Energy overtaking my nausea.

I think my next step is to reach out to a guy who makes videos on healing your innerchild. I know I'm emotionally immature so I'm hoping this can Yield some results 

[nistake]

4 hours ago, KennedyCarter said:

*loud speaker phone noise* “Sir this is McDonalds”!

"And here's Tom with the weather"

[Endangered-EGO]

@TrippyMindSubstance Okay, I like how you put that.

My problem is I haven't been able to function work properly since my burnout in 2019/2020. The more I tried, the harder it got. I am barely able to work 2hours a day, and those hours are killing me. This of course leads to shame and guilt.

I felt actually pretty good right before lockdown 2020, but since then I spent about every hour in isolation.

 

Changing circumstances might make me happy, but I don't want happiness when I don't experience it. I'm obsessed with problem solving.

I actually use spirituality as an escape because I fell down so hard and haven't been able to get up and stay up yet.

The last years were only failures and failures, this obviously lead to despair and a lack of motivation for anything.

So you're saying I should use spirituality as a means to function and get up again first?

 

[Endangered-EGO]

@Raptorsin7 Interesting, do you have someone who helps you assess your situation or steps?

[Raptorsin7]

@Endangered-EGO Not right now, but I was working with a kriya yogi for about 6 months and that was really helpful, and from those conversations I have a decent sense of how go progress.

Have you realized how important being aware is? You can rest everything and just go to that experience of being aware, it can be very profound once understood 

[Endangered-EGO]

@Raptorsin7 Yes, shinzen Young was a big help for that.

 

He uses the phrase divide and conquer. Untagnle and be free.

Instead of coping by hiding and supression or grasping he tells people to go closer to the experience. 

 

If it wasn't for meditation I probably would have already killed myself or ended up in psychiatry. But who knows tbh.

 

Some "types" of suffering once fully experienced in the entire body disappeared I remember despair being in my entire fucking body, the last time it occured.

 

[Consilience]

Can your attention concentrate deeply enough on perceptive experience to feel the moment by moment arising and passing/expansion and contraction of moment by moment perceptive experience? If yes, can you penetrate even more deeply onto the underlying emptiness? If yes, all you really need to do is just hangout there. If no, work towards each of these steps. 
 

Any sort of existential contemplation is best completed from this space of awareness, in my opinion. So until attention can stabilize onto this level of emptiness, keep going. 

[Raptorsin7]

@Endangered-EGO What's the longest you just sat down or layed down and just rested being aware?

I've also experienced suffering being completely wiped from my system.

The way I see it now, it's like our beings are contracted because of emotional trauma, and when we rest as being aware we begin to unwind the contraction, and if we unwind enough we will meet repressed emotional blocks and if we can feel into them they will be liberated and slowly therr will be no blocks anymore 

[Endangered-EGO]

14 minutes ago, Consilience said:

Can your attention concentrate deeply enough on perceptive experience to feel the moment by moment arising and passing/expansion and contraction of moment by moment perceptive experience? If yes, can you penetrate even more deeply onto the underlying emptiness? If yes, all you really need to do is just hangout there. If no, work towards each of these steps. 
 

Any sort of existential contemplation is best completed from this space of awareness, in my opinion. So until attention can stabilize onto this level of emptiness, keep going. 

@Consilience Yes, but only towards being, expansion and contraction doesn't come and go from 0 to 0. Its a only absense of mind/thought.

 

Is this similar to shinzen Young's noting "gone"?

[Consilience]

4 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

@Consilience Yes, but only towards being, expansion and contraction doesn't come and go from 0 to 0. Its a only absense of mind/thought.

 

Is this similar to shinzen Young's noting "gone"?

Short answer is yes.
 

Longer answer, noting gone is what starts to clue the attention onto this dynamic quality of perception, but there‘s no guarantee noting gone will always break one into emptiness. However, it is a very powerful, quite unknown technique. 
 

An absence of mind and thought isn’t this quality of expansion/contraction or arising/passing, but the fact that you can even get into states of thougtlessness is great. When you break into expansion and contraction, thought activity may still be going on, but at this level of mindfulness thoughts are no problem, they’re just more objects to observe expansion and contraction. 
 

Id say Shinzen’s teachings on expansion and contraction are part of what propelled my own practice into a whole new level of depth AND helped contextualize other contradictory teachings. For example, awareness doesn’t always carry with it this level of detection. If Ive entered a jhanic like state of awareness but can‘t penetrate the void like nature of experience via expansion and contraction, I know Im not resting as the awareness a teacher like Ramana Maharshi is pointing, for example. If the outside world still feels solid, there’s a shitload of mental fabrication, uncognized mind activity, and self deception going on. 

 

This is how noting/vipassana can be a powerful tool even in the context of self inquiry. But on the other hand, when one does start to breakthrough to THE Self in meditation, even expansion and contraction collapse in on themselves into infinite emptiness. There is a single thus-ness which is neither being, nor non-being. 
 

For now, Id try to start detecting the moment by moment flavors of how reality is constantly dying and being reborn. Noting gone or noting new are powerful entry points. For that matter, so is the See Hear Feel technique in general. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Consilience

[TrippyMindSubstance]

13 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

So you're saying I should use spirituality as a means to function and get up again first?

I'm more saying that figuring out how to get up again and function will ultimately be a spiritual process, even if it doesn't feel like it at first. And I also think if mostly what spirituality is for you at this moment is an escape, then ironically, you won't make much spiritual progress pursuing spirituality intensely at this stage in your life.

Now there is nuance to it, I don't think you should give it up for good necessarily, but I think your primary focus needs to be "getting your shit together" whatever that means for you, rather than taking the approach that it feels like you're taking which seems to be "I don't know how to get my shit together and I don't know if I can, so I will just pursue spirituality and enlightenment so I don't have to deal with all that". 

There is clearly lots for you to work on in terms of getting back up on your feet and being properly functional again. I don't know what caused the burn out for you, but you need to learn how to fix that. Maybe you just need to learn to rest properly, maybe you got burnt out because you were working so hard towards something you didn't actually care that much about, and you need to spend this time finding a more appropriate life purpose. You said you've been in isolation since the pandemic started, you need to figure out how to fix that. Even if everything is locked down, you need to figure out how to connect with people more online or whatever until you can do so in person. 

These are things that if you have the money for, it could be very very effective to see a therapist for, at least 3 or 4 times, but probably more if possible. Don't underestimate someone like a therapist to be kind of like a guru for you. Remember, there is no difference really between a "guru", a therapist, or some random person you talk to on the street. Ultimately it's all the same One Being. When the student is ready, the teacher appears, and the "teacher" is always everywhere, trying to communicate to you through your feelings, through other people, through random ideas you get, and through online forum posts like this one. The more honest you are with yourself about your feelings and desires, and the less attached you get to how things are supposed to unfold/how enlightenment is supposed to happen, the faster you will be able to progress. 

Keep your mind open, and remember, whatever you have to face in this process of getting back up on your feet, is the exactly what you need to face and deal with in order to get closer to enlightenment.