Do women haters have good intentions?

[Preety_India]

12 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

I mean plenty of females hate men too. They call them the source of evil etc etc. Extreme feminists comments about men are no walk in the park either.

Cherry picking??? 

This statement reminds me of a discussion on Rape. When a woman talks about the overwhelming threat of rape, suddenly a man begins to ramble about false rape accusations. 

So basically the issue is completely shut down and the focus is directed to a problem that is statistically on a much lower scale and it takes away the meat of the issue and mixes it up with something that never was the agenda of the discussion. 

 

12 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

The bottom line is that happens to both genders from the other gender because a lot of people see this duality between male and female.

 

The bottom line is that misogyny is far far more common than misandry. We don't want to admit it especially when we're male and find all sorts of ways to keep skirting around the issue, acting like we're doing some favor to women.

And using excuses like "happens to everyone" is the best way of downplaying an issue, simply discard it because it happens to this, to that, to everyone. So we don't need to do anything about it, not even admit that it is a something that needs to go away. 

 

12 minutes ago, Karmadhi said:

 

Therefore it can occur for one half to hate the other half. Same for religion, race, ethnicity, income level etc etc. The meta mechanics are similar for all of these.

 

Yes????? But that doesn't mean it should be put up with. Nice deflection. "I'm sin because everyone is sin."

[Alysssa]

@Preety_India 

I think that this thread is useful because I have a question and I look for answers like anybody else here. I didn't post it in order to speared my ideas about feminism but simply to make things for myself clear. Maybe I put a mirror in front of some women haters but it's not a big deal, eventually it's hard to live a full life without triggering someone. I probably trigger some men on daily basis just for being alive LOL, I can live with that. 

I have to admit that I didn't expect from spiritual men or men who prone to spirituality, to have hatred for women. But it was a naïve thinking of mine probably. In other hand, I also appreciate those who answered to the point without insulting women or without being triggered, so it's not black or white. 

Yes arguing with people has no use, I avoid it when it become too toxic for me to handle. The good thing about the internet is that when someone is nasty to me, I can ignore him.

 

[Preety_India]

@Alysssa to be extremely honest , all my years growing up, it's the so called spiritual men who showed the highest level of hate towards women. 

It's an irony but also the truth. 

Normal men with girlfriends show less hate to women. 

Men who are incels and spiritual men who place themselves in high regard, tend to hate women much more because they don't have feminine energy in life. 

This lack of female presence makes them resentful and hateful towards women. 

They also assume that the cause of their suffering is the presence of a woman. 

Since they have to control sexual desires they put the onus of not being able to suppress their sexual desires on women. All blame is placed on women. 

Their twisted logic works like this. 

 

Sexual desire = evil. 

Sexual desire  = women. 

Therefore, 

Women = evil. 

 

I've seen Gurus in my culture literally blame women for all the problems of humanity. 

Hinduism can make a woman look like a monster meanwhile having its  own set of goddesses. 

The paradox of being spiritual and showing complete lack of empathy to women. 

Mind-boggling! 

 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Preety_India

[Alysssa]

@Preety_India  Those who called themselves spiritual people without fully embracing their

feminine and masculine sides are simply deluding themselves.

Those so called spiritual personalities who assume that presence of women

cause them suffering because it arises sexual drives in them, are probably stuck at stage blue. I feel pity for them. 

I've been exposed to Hinduism a bit and I felt disturbed by it's toxicity towards women and how it covers it with a sweet blanket of spiritual vague explanations. There was something I read about abortions that woman has no right to do that even if she gets pregnant by violent rape and there were some vague spiritual explanation, I couldn't keep reading it. Unfortunately Hinduism isn't the only toxic religion to women.

 

 

 

[Preety_India]

@Alysssa in Hinduism 

The male child is considered more important than the female child. 

As a result millions of female fetuses were aborted. It's called female infanticide. 

There are images in Hinduism where the woman falls at the man's feet and she is supposed to beg him for his grace and mercy. 

It's a pathetic hypocritical patriarchal culture where a woman has no value or respect and misogyny runs rampant. Only women who get respect are statues of goddesses.. 

 

My grandmother used to get beaten by my grandad. 

Rape is a rampant problem in Hindu society and blame is placed on women for being attractive to men. 

Shaming of women is daily business in Indian society and culture. 

Sexism is rampant. I was harassed at my job. Told to go back to the Kitchen

Any Indian woman who is confident is called arrogant and shamed and trolled mercilessly on social media. 

Indian women who are online are told to go back to their homes and never appear online again. 

I used to receive death threats on another website where men in my country used to tell me that I have no business being online. If I had shame I was supposed to log off. 

They will call Indian women ugly, whore and a bunch of nasty stuff to shame her into oblivion. 

Most Indian women on Facebook do not have profile pictures because their pictures get misused and they get blackmailed and threatened for simply being on social media. 

When I used to travel by bus, some Indian man would always try to grope me and threaten me with death and rape if I decided to report him to the cops 

I can go on and on and on. 

It takes a lot of bravery to fight this toxic patriarchy. 

And women in my country are taking one step forward every day. 

Feminism in my country is like medicine for oppressed women. 

 

[Karmadhi]

@Preety_India

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

This statement reminds me of a discussion on Rape. When a woman talks about the overwhelming threat of rape, suddenly a man begins to ramble about false rape accusations. 

So basically the issue is completely shut down and the focus is directed to a problem that is statistically on a much lower scale and it takes away the meat of the issue and mixes it up with something that never was the agenda of the discussion. 

 

I am talking soley about the west here. It is not that bad there. I am sure in India the situation is totally different, i am not familiar with how it is there.

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

The bottom line is that misogyny is far far more common than misandry. We don't want to admit it especially when we're male and find all sorts of ways to keep skirting around the issue, acting like we're doing some favor to women.

And using excuses like "happens to everyone" is the best way of downplaying an issue, simply discard it because it happens to this, to that, to everyone. So we don't need to do anything about it, not even admit that it is a something that needs to go away. 

 

I do not do any misstreatment of women and neither do all the people i know. So do not use we for me please.

3 hours ago, Preety_India said:

Yes????? But that doesn't mean it should be put up with. Nice deflection. "I'm sin because everyone is sin."

Never said so. Do not put words in my mouth please. I said it is a problem just like these things, it should be solved just like those other problems should be solved too. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Preety_India]

Just now, Karmadhi said:

@Preety_India

I am talking soley about the west here. It is not that bad there.

I do not do any misstreatment of women and neither do all the people i know. So do not use we for me please.

Never said so. Do not put words in my mouth please. I said it is a problem just like these things, it should be solved just like those other problems should be solved too. 

No you keep saying the West. 

This is another cover up. You do not support women at all. 

All of your statements were arguments made to deflect. 

You use the word "west" as a strategy to deflect from the Main issue. 

 I'm not putting words in your mouth at all. 

If you are a woman supportive man, you wouldn't want to deflect the argument so vehemently

Every sentence of your post is a deflection. 

You think that western women don't suffer at all? Who told you this? 

You think that women in the West don't get raped, don't suffer sexism, don't suffer oppression? 

It may not be as bad as in the East yet it was very bad in ancient times and the remnants still exist. 

Your argument is poorly worded

 

If you want to show support to women, show it openly, don't be passive aggressive and try to downplay or defeat the issue by constantly bringing up general suffering. 

It's like if I said there is child abuse happening in territory A and your return argument is that there are kids dying from hunger in Africa. 

Hello? 

Quit your mind game please. 

 

[Karmadhi]

@Preety_India

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

No you keep saying the West.

Because there is a huge difference between the two. If i talk about poverty i will specificy if it is poverty in Africa or in Canada because different regions have different situations and standards. You cannot compare women rights of saudi arabia to those of sweden. It is not at all the same situation.

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

ou think that women in the West don't get raped, don't suffer sexism, don't suffer oppression? 

Fear of rape is legit everywhere in the world and unfortunately it  will never be solved fully. Just like mugging will not be solved fully. You cannot stop some psychopath from choosing to rape you if he wants. However it can be reduced with effort and i am all for that. Rape is fucked up. All sort of sexual assault is, even catcalling.

Regarding sexism or oppression i do not know, laws in the west are very gender equal and if there is sexism is very subtle in a way that my male mind cannot pick it up. It is not like other countries where a female cannot even get a good job due to sexism. It is not at all obvious, it is ver subtle. If anyone here can give me a list of specific issues i would love to hear them. 

7 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

If you want to show support to women, show it openly, don't be passive aggressive and try to downplay or defeat the issue by constantly bringing up general suffering. 

I treat all the females i know with respect, if you knew me in person you would change your opinion. 

Edited August 27, 2021 by Karmadhi

[Preety_India]

I just rest my case on this thread. 

Such threads trigger me because of the generational trauma faced by women in my country. 

It's a waste of time and a battle that has no end in sight. 

I said enough. 

 

[Nos7algiK]

Just now, Preety_India said:

I just rest my case on this thread. 

Such threads trigger me because of the generational trauma faced by women in my country. 

It's a waste of time and a battle that has no end in sight. 

I said enough. 

 

The problem can't be fixed by combating only one side. This has been the issue and will forever be the issue until we fix the problem at a whole. This is largely an interpersonal problem and not a sex problem. If we make it a sex problem there is forever be a divide.

Stop making it about women, stop making it about men. The solution to this will take years to process, but it's possible. It starts with only ourselves and no one else. The moment you believe someone else needs to fix themselves is the moment you fail. We must also accept what is and the way people are. Even if they are seen as the greatest evil, we must accept them. How can we be the solution if we ourselves are at opposition with something else? No matter how much your ego wishes to defend the reasons you have fabricated in your mind based on the variables of experience and not actuality. It is a choice, so if this is the case, then choose love over all to all. This is the solution and is far more difficult than attacking the other side in the hopes of a solution. But, difficult as it may be it is far far more effect.

When you lead by example and you show no disgust or hatred toward either sex this may naturally inspire others to follow. If you can do it, why can't they? When they have the deep realization they can be non-biased towards both men and women no matter what some men/women may do to each other then they have been truly liberated from these polarizing views. So, hopefully they can naturally inspire others as well.

[Preety_India]

@Nos7algiK opening up about women's issues should not be conflated as bias against men. Defeats the whole purpose. 

@Karmadhi you didn't offend me. Don't worry. It's just debate. 

 

[Nos7algiK]

5 minutes ago, Preety_India said:

@Nos7algiK opening up about women's issues should not be conflated as bias against men. Defeats the whole purpose. 

 

It's not, but when someone says "it happens to both sides" shouldn't be seen an invalidating the issues with women. It should be seen as just that, a problem as a whole. Both sides would be taken care of equally and empathy goes out to everyone without prejudice or bias. The scales are tipped the moment we say one said has it worse therefore it needs more attention. Both sides have their own set of wrongs/rights and this equals each other out in the end. Some aspects are talked about more which make them appear to be grander in nature. Though many subtleties can add up, yet go unnoticed by most.

Again, we all should be helping each other out. More importantly helping ourselves out, but if we think because one side has it worst they are first in line to get their issues fixed it will only cause division on the other side. Also, the side that is getting fixed will demonize the other side because they will believe it was them that made it this way in the first place.

[Preety_India]

15 minutes ago, Nos7algiK said:

It's not, but when someone says "it happens to both sides" shouldn't be seen an invalidating the issues with women. It should be seen as just that, a problem as a whole. Both sides would be taken care of equally and empathy goes out to everyone without prejudice or bias. The scales are tipped the moment we say one said has it worse therefore it needs more attention.

Women were oppressed since centuries. 

Patriarchy existed for the most part in human history throughout all cultures 

Women didn't have voting rights and were considered second class citizens. 

Sexual violence is much higher against women than against men.. 

Almost every president and major leader has been a male. 

Women face tons of sexual harassment and sexual at work daily. 

 

A woman's contribution is always considered to be of lesser value. 

 

The scale is definitely not tipped in the favor of women. 

Men have their own issues, but these aren't created by women, maybe some, but most are created by other men. 

I never said that we shouldn't have empathy for men. 

But if we're discussing women's issues, why bring it up at all? 

Can't it be discussed separately without distracting from the issue at hand? 

When someone has been in the position of a victim for centuries, I think they should be given priority for their issues over the problems of the oppressor. 

Women's issues definitely need to be given priority over men's because they were the ones oppressed. 

Didn't men have enough control of the terrain for hundreds of centuries?

Empathy should exist for men. 

But empathy needs to be prioritized for women first because it's the oppressed classes of society that need to be tended first. 

It's like first take care of the wound on the head and then take care of the injury on the finger. 

Women face much bigger issues especially with respect to men. 

men's issues caused by women pale in comparison. 

There's simply no comparison at all. 

 

 

[Nos7algiK]

@Preety_IndiaYou know what, it's not worth talking about this. You are free to feel as you wish, though I wish you lived with experiences that helped you not feel that way. I only wish to see everyone happy in the world, though I can't personally give that to them. It seems like a cruel fate to have distain towards against an entire gender, though no matter what I say my words can't change how or why someone feels this way. This has nothing to do with you being a woman against men. I would say the same to an incel who's against women as well. But, again there is no point to talking to people like that. I have nothing against you, not that you thought I did. Though, I do hope you can get to a place where at least the words of those on a forum don't trigger you as much. 

I say this because I had a moment of awareness where I realized I'm being hypocritical when I say "combating it doesn't help" and yet here I am, combating it lol.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[Preety_India]

1 minute ago, Nos7algiK said:

. It seems like a cruel fate to have distain towards against an entire gender, though no matter what I say my words can't change how or why someone feels this way. This has nothing to do with you being a woman against men. I would say the same to an incel who's against women as well

This is the Crux of the problem. You're constantly thinking it's about attacking men when it's not. 

This is where you're twisting the narrative.. 

The narrative is not to attack men

The narrative is to bring awareness to issues that plague a woman's survival on this planet and how to help them survive safer and better. 

Yes many women lose their lives because of men. Gender violence is very high.

If saying this truth makes you think that I'm attacking men, then simply your assumption. 

Condemnation is not bias. Nor is it hate. 

I never said all men are bad. But I'm not going to ignore women's suffering in this world. It has already been ignored for too long. 

If you don't understand women's sufferings, please tell me what can I  do? Not my obligation if you are going to twist things and make me look like a man hater. 

You just do not want to objectively look at what I'm pointing. I want women's problems to be handled seriously and not tucked away.. I want greater awareness to how their lives are harmed and in most cases it is men. 

If you want to take it and twist it as an attack on an entire gender, it's not a fair assessment of what my objective is. 

I'm calling for protection for women, more protection for women, condemnation of those men who support doing wrong things to women and not the vilification of the male gender. 

Try not to twist my objective. 

 

 

[Danioover9000]

@Alysssa

12 hours ago, Alysssa said:

I watched Leo's last video and I really can't understand what women haters gain from being mean toward women?

What they gain from sarcastic comments, gaslighting, toxic and arrogant even violent behavior to women who did nothing to them or women who just stand for themselves and talk about what's in their mind?

I'm not surprised when I see unintelligent men who talk shit about women but I surprised to see men who considered intelligent who have such a low opinions about women. 

I can understand why they act that way in less developed countries more or less because those countries often have very limited view point but what about developed countries? We have much more freedom and there is so much more perspectives so why do they insist to be so ignorant and keep putting down the other sex?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

   Because it depends on many factors, like what stage their cultural upbringing was at, what cognitive development, moral development, their state of consciousness was at at the time of recieving some degree of trauma from the woman/women.

   The most important point of Leo's recent video, is to consider that everyone, including bad people, have good intentions, and to be open to the possibility that if this is realized, you reach a level of peace of mind regarding evil, because you recognize that you are even more evil relative compared to a person who appears to be a greater evil than you. Sorry, but you are still the devil. Once that half is comprehended, the next half is inner work, self retrospection and purifying yourself to the point of not only have peace of mind, but peace of being. It's not limited to women haters, so if this key issue is specific to you, and this triggers you, that's a sign of inner work to integrate that, to the point of it being a non issue anymore. And you move on to the next issue, and the next, until the majority of life is integrated and is at peace.

[Nos7algiK]

@Preety_India understand perfectly well what you are saying. The issue is pointing out the issue. It's a paradox and it's difficult to fix the problems in such a way. By pointing out the issue opposition rises towards the issue. There is an attempt to fix the issue, but the larger the problem the more possibility for "warped" or impure fixes to manifest. This then causes more issues. When I say the word "attack" you imply it holds only negative merit, it does not. It simply implies overcoming that which you perceive as opposing you. This can be for better or worse.

I don't think you are a man hater, but rather someone who is easily trigged and allows their emotions to get the best of them and has a poor time contextualizing themselves in a civil manner in this trigged mode. This is why we call it triggered lol. I know you have good intentions and I don't think you hate all men. I do believe you have a lot of assumptions about men due to your own past experiences, but this isn't hate. I also know you can contextualize yourself very well when you are not triggered. I understand it's frustrating to not be able to find a solution or to believe that you are wanting to change things for the better but there are ignorant people around you who seem to hold you back. But, accepting these people for who they are instead of allowing ourselves to get trigged will get to our objective more optimally.

You are saying that I don't want to help women, but I never once said that. The only reason I typed anything was to defend the point someone made that others suffer as well and how you dismissed this to shine the light back on women. I told you my goal is to find a solution to all the problems where everyone wins. So, it is your own assumption if you believe that doesn't include yourself.

My solution would be to help you as a person in whatever way you needed so you had the confidence and tools to achieve your goal. This then would help inspire other women to better themselves and overcome any hardships against men they have had or life in general. I said many times before, the individual is the most important. But, the individual doesn't mean we ignore women's problems or men's problems. It means if you are a woman and have those types of problems we work 1 on 1 with you to help your specific case based on your life. Where is the issue with this? Where are we not listening to women's problems here?

Edited August 27, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[The0Self]

13 hours ago, Alysssa said:

I watched Leo's last video and I really can't understand what women haters gain from being mean toward women?

What they gain from sarcastic comments, gaslighting, toxic and arrogant even violent behavior to women who did nothing to them or women who just stand for themselves and talk about what's in their mind?

I'm not surprised when I see unintelligent men who talk shit about women but I surprised to see men who considered intelligent who have such a low opinions about women. 

I can understand why they act that way in less developed countries more or less because those countries often have very limited view point but what about developed countries? We have much more freedom and there is so much more perspectives so why do they insist to be so ignorant and keep putting down the other sex?

In one manner of speaking, they’re at a lower stage of ego development. They identify with, and have compassion for, men who they perceive as having been wronged; heartbroken; seduced; affected; emasculated by women. They identify less with the women, creating a differential in perceived goodness — women painted as the evil ones. Pretty simple.

Edited August 27, 2021 by The0Self

[Alysssa]

@Preety_India Life in India as a woman seems unbearable, the fact that your life and safety are at danger so often very disturbing. I'm fascinated by your spirit and personality. Please take care of yourself.

 

 

[Preety_India]

@Alysssa thank you