Leo, you are so much wrong in this video with a red dress :(

[Enlighten]

 

7 hours ago, DieFree said:

If the Prophet Muhammad's own wife Khadija bint Khuwaylid was a successful and independent business woman, why is the taliban refusing to let women out of the house to do their work. Does the taliban have a problem with the example of the blessed prophet?

The Taliban are inspired by Deobandi movement, not Salafist movement. They were just funded by Salafists in 1970s.

They wouldn't care if the Prophet let her wife do pole-dancing.

The Deobandis have also banned celebrating the Prophet's Birthday. 

In their opinion, Women incite Men. So it's better for women to hide their bodies, including their face, to not let men go mad about them. This helps in limiting illegitimate relations and keeps a young man sane. So, when women will start working, they'll get attention from other men. Hence, Taliban is against women working. 

To go against the fact that Prophet's wife worked, actually saves them from doing other 'Un-Islamic' things.

 

 

Stage Blue meets OCD.

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Enlighten said:

In their opinion, Women incite Men.

They aren't wrong.

[Enlighten]

1 hour ago, Gesundheit2 said:

A secular system inclusive of religion will survive. Just get rid of those radicals first.

The radicals EXIST because of a secular system. No one is radical under brutal dictatorship. Either you agree. or you get treated.

Secularism is only a Tier 1 ideal. You would have to grow beyond secularism to understand shit happening inside a radical's mind.

[Gesundheit2]

@Enlighten

1 hour ago, Enlighten said:

The radicals EXIST because of a secular system. No one is radical under brutal dictatorship. Either you agree. or you get treated.

Secularism is only a Tier 1 ideal. You would have to grow beyond secularism to understand shit happening inside a radical's mind.

Secular dictatorship; Law enforced by the police and army. What are all governments (including western) but that? Either you agree to follow the law, or you get treated.

The only difference between a religious government and a secular one is that each of them operates with different values, which makes different rules. But in the big picture, they're exactly the same. There's a set of laws that you have to follow, or you're a criminal. This is where Spiral Dynamics got it right. A stage Orange government is higher/better than a stage Blue one, because it's more inclusive. Orange allows the co-existence of different religious views, as they're all subjects to the same law. Blue doesn't, and it's racist against certain groups, and oppressive to everyone.

Taliban is a Mafia, or an armed gang/militia; Stage Red individuals who got together because of ideology, and hijacked the country and took control of all of its resources.

Governments are stage Orange opportunists who did exactly the same thing.

The difference is as clear as day. A secular government would work if those radicals/criminals were exterminated.

1 hour ago, Enlighten said:

The Taliban are inspired by Deobandi movement, not Salafist movement. They were just funded by Salafists in 1970s.

They wouldn't care if the Prophet let her wife do pole-dancing.

The Deobandis have also banned celebrating the Prophet's Birthday. 

In their opinion, Women incite Men. So it's better for women to hide their bodies, including their face, to not let men go mad about them. This helps in limiting illegitimate relations and keeps a young man sane. So, when women will start working, they'll get attention from other men. Hence, Taliban is against women working. 

To go against the fact that Prophet's wife worked, actually saves them from doing other 'Un-Islamic' things.

 

 

Stage Blue meets OCD.

I didn't know about the Deobandi movement. Thanks for the input.

Muhammad's wife was a business woman before she even married him. He worked for her for a period of time, and then she offered him marriage because of his integrity, at least that's what we've been taught.

It's important to note that slavery was prominent at that point, so SD doesn't apply. Women slaves, for example, were not allowed to cover their breasts. Covering the breasts was an advantage that only free women had. Free women were allowed to choose their husband, while slave women were sex slaves, bought and sold against their will.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[Enlighten]

5 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

But in the big picture, they're exactly the same. There's a set of laws that you have to follow, or you're a criminal.

The set of laws that allow KKK, Proud Boys, Islamists to function in the name of freedom of speech is worse than a Saddam/Gaddafi Dictatorship.

For a stage purple tribal society, secularism won't work. It either needs Stage Red dictatorship (of any kind) or some Stage Yellow governance.

The reason Secularism is appealing in a tribal society is because Secularism LEADS to tribalism. Everybody gets to propagate their ideology. Take USA, everybody is part of some modern cult, be it conservatives, liberals, libertarians, MAGA, BLM, Pro-CRT, Anti-vax etc. Yes, It is less violent then Afghanistan but there is a common identity of 'Americans' behind it. There is no common identity for people living in Afghanistan. 

Heck if you are a Pashtun woman living in North East. your family will not even think twice to disown you if you married a Pashtun from the far west of Afghanistan. Things are crazy within ethnicities themselves. 

19 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

It's important to note that slavery was prominent at that point, so SD doesn't apply.

Lol

SD does apply. Slavery is prominent in all Tier 1 stages, even Stage Green, but nvm

[Gesundheit2]

2 minutes ago, Enlighten said:

The set of laws that allow KKK, Proud Boys, Islamists to function in the name of freedom of speech is worse than a Saddam/Gaddafi Dictatorship.

I'm saying Orange, not Green. Orange is the best stage. See below:

Here's an alternative model to SD: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqaddimah

[Enlighten]

11 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I'm saying Orange, not Green. Orange is the best stage. See below:

Here's an alternative model to SD: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqaddimah

From the page : 

'He argues that the best type of political community is a caliphate or Islamic state, and argues that the neo-Platonist political theories of al-Farabi and Ibn Sina and the "perfect state" (Madinatu l-Faḍīlah) are useless because God's Law, the sharia, has been revealed to take account of public interest and the afterlife. '

Says Enough.

Ibn Khaldun is at Blue-Orange stage. If you try to explain his 14th century works to the Taliban, they will call you a Kafir and hang you to one of their traffic poles.

He might have been a good addition to Afghanistan if the Afghans were as developed as this man: 

 

Alternative model to SD? Have you actually read spiral dynamics or are you just bullshitting around.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Enlighten

[Gesundheit2]

21 minutes ago, Enlighten said:

Have you actually read spiral dynamics or are you just bullshitting around.

I'm just bullshitting around.

[Thought Art]

3 hours ago, Enlighten said:

 

In their opinion, Women incite Men. So it's better for women to hide their bodies, including their face, to not let men go mad about them. This helps in limiting illegitimate relations and keeps a young man sane. So, when women will start working, they'll get attention from other men.

Stage Blue meets OCD.

Well, I think we are maturing in the west. But, isn't it obvious to us men struggle to control their sexual energy all around the world? I understand these rules limit freedom, but at different levels of development in society I see the wisdom in these laws and ideologies around covering up.

Not defending or promoting, I just see the intelligence in the technology.

I dream of a day when we are all free to express ourselves as we wish

Edited August 26, 2021 by Thought Art

[Windappreciator]

I just want to remind everyone that there are greater problems earth will face soon than the Taliban and that there is a mass holocaust going on to which end everyone can contribute to individually with his consumer choices.

Over which we have much more influence than the Taliban's mindset.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Windappreciator

[DocWatts]

While I'm not disputing the overall point of the video that people act for understandable and self-justifying reasons, from a pragmatic point of view there is a question of how ethically appropriate it is to extend our full compassion towards people who abuse and victimize others, versus reserving that compassion for those who are victims of abuse and maltreatment. After all, we still need to reconcile our understanding of why people behave they way they do with the pragmatic reality of needing to hold people accountable for thier actions.

Is it appropriate to extend to the architects of the Holocaust our compassion when they themselves built a system which denied any compassion whatsoever to millions of other human beings? If so, does extending compassion to people who abuse and mistreat others cause indirect harm to those who have been victimized by such people because it devalues their suffering? Even if most examples from everyday lived experience aren't so extreme, at the same time it's not hard to find examples where it's fairly easy to delineate who is the abuser and who is the victim in a given situation.

What you have here is in some ways a classic Free Rider problem, not too dissimilar to questions such as how far Tolerance should be extended to those who are Intolerant of others.

While I won't claim that there's an easy and unambiguous answer to these problems, I do think it's completely fair to at least ask the question.

Edited August 26, 2021 by DocWatts

[diamondpenguin]

9 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

After I am dead.

That's kinda depressing, I don't know why people wouldn't embrace the flexflow synergy loving state of being, it makes each day interesting. Actually it's pretty obvious to be frank. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by diamondpenguin

[Carl-Richard]

21 hours ago, Hulia said:

It´s easy to be so understanding for bad childhood of a taliban- man beheading an afghan woman or a man. Sitting on the couch with an ice-cream in USA - far enough from Taliban. Try to be that empathetic, while being a woman in Afganistan who taught the girls or had a position in a former afghan government without a chance to leave the country now, sitting in Kabul and waiting for the men with bad childhood come to cut her nose or to kill her.

This is why Green is not Tier 2, because it engages in survival guilt-tripping and gatekeeping. "Your survival conditions are too light and disqualifies you from making statements about harder conditions". This is a mistake. It forgets that it's exactly those lighter conditions that makes it possible to come to such conclusions in the first place. That is a feature not a bug. This also doesn't negate or understate the horror that is Taliban, but rather the implication is that it's only the fact that the Taliban is so horrible that keeps you from seeing the larger picture. Keeping it from a distance makes you see it more clearly, because survival corrupts your mind.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Carl-Richard]

7 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I'm saying Orange, not Green. Orange is the best stage. See below:

Here's an alternative model to SD: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Muqaddimah

LMAO why are you still citing this medieval dude from 1377?

[Zeroguy]

All I know.is that I wanted woman in red dress and after that picture video became absolete and not worth watching. 

Is Leo right or.wrong I don't care and not worth my time. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Zeroguy

[Gesundheit2]

1 hour ago, Carl-Richard said:

LMAO why are you still citing this medieval dude from 1377?

Because his model is more realistic and accurate than SD. SD is an unsustainable utopian dream that will prove its limitations sooner than you imagine.

No society has ever stepped beyond Green. Green is the last stage for a society, then it collapses.

Tier two can never be realized in mainstream society, only in individuals. And these individuals are mostly the top scientists and philosophers who are aware of metaphysics.

Hypothetically, even if tier two could somehow become mainstream, society would still collapse nevertheless, and that's the point. It's impossible to have a society made solely of thinkers. You need all other kinds of people to make a functional society. You need farmers and builders and soldiers and butchers and writers and teachers and students and principals and doctors and engineers and all sorts of people who can't possibly waste their time on metaphysics because they're busy doing their own jobs. And you need people who can dedicate their time to study metaphysics and inform all the others (researchers, philosophers, gurus, etc...).

Unfortunately, some people have the time to study SD, but they skim through other models and dismiss them casually because they're old or whatnot.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Gesundheit2

[Hardkill]

15 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

This is completely obvious and predictable.

Because most Afghans are a stage Purple level of development, while the US puppet government was modeled for stages Blue/Orange/Green.

Obviously it was never going to work. Not because the Taliban is too evil, but because the Taliban reflects the average people.

Well yeah, I kind of understand that, but what exactly did most Afghans not like about the more Democratic kind of government that we built them? 

Did, for example, most Afghani women in their country actually not like being given equal rights and freedom?

Edited August 26, 2021 by Hardkill

[p1xelm0nk]

13 hours ago, Hulia said:

No, if somebody wnats to kill me, I don´t care about their motivation. On this point you agreed with me.

Do you know, where there the difference arises?

Is somebody tries to kill another person I don´t care abou their motivation either, as if this other person were me. But you suddenly starts to contemplate about the difficult childhood of the predator instead of thinking how to help a victim. 

And this.... you call emathy! Fuck..

jesus christ your lizard brain is so utterly triggered you are simply unable to think straight anymore lmao.

[Axiomatic]

I always knew the day would come where far left/feminist agenda would but heads with Islam. They preach tolerance and acceptance of other cultures, but now it affects their agenda. And they are mindlessly getting upset and applying their "enlightened values" to a society that doesn't give a shit about what they think. 

It's quite hilarious and was easily predictable 

[Axiomatic]

4 hours ago, Husseinisdoingfine said:

LOL.

Women do get men to do all sorts of crazy and stupid things.

Understanding the destruction women can cause (which is more subtle and manipulative compared to the male's physical destruction) is one of the few things Islam got right.

Idk if they should cover them all up, but it's easy to see and understand if you truly know female nature.