Leo, you are so much wrong in this video with a red dress :(

[Hulia]

You say it´s a lack of empathy, if a first world westener thinks Taliban is bad. But it´s exactly the opposite. 

It´s easy to be so understanding for bad childhood of a taliban- man beheading an afghan woman or a man. Sitting on the couch with an ice-cream in USA - far enough from Taliban. Try to be that empathetic, while being a woman in Afganistan who taught the girls or had a position in a former afghan government without a chance to leave the country now, sitting in Kabul and waiting for the men with bad childhood come to cut her nose or to kill her.

In your video you brought an example of taliban beaheading a westener. How egoistic is this? These are not the westeners who are threatened by Taliban mainly but the afghans. 99% of women and at least half of the men who don´t want Taliban to rule them, I estimate at least 70-75% of afghan people. Or did you mention a westener because you think, that only westeners don´t like to be beheaded? The afghan people might enjoy the procedure because of their culture?

Only a spoiled and egoistic westener can put Taliban (or even Chinese and Russian government) on the same scale as American government. The amiricans don´t try to escape their country on chassis of afghan (or russian or chinese) air planes. 

I know that I won´t convince you. But It´s a shock to see how egoistic and self-centered are the first-world lucky dogs. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Hulia

[Leo Gura]

You're simply not understanding how power works and the realities of survival in that part of the world.

Empathy doesn't matter when survival is at stake. You can't be empathetic when you're dead.

There is not going to be women's rights in Afghanistan for a LONG time. Rather than being butt-hurt about it, seek to understand why that is.

[Roy]

33 minutes ago, Hulia said:

99% of women and at least half of the men who don´t want Taliban to rule them, I estimate at least 70-75% of afghan people.

Perhaps consider why it was so easy for the Taliban to take control of the country is because A LOT more people than we are willing to admit are either supportive of, or neutral in having the Taliban in charge. I'm sure most don't care who is in charge ultimately, they just want a unified government that will bring some stability. Though they definitely don't want white foreigners running their country after 75+ years of non-stop war and occupation.

There would have been WAY more resistance if most Afghans weren't content with letting the Taliban take control. They practically waltzed their way to the presidential palace.

We have to dispel this naïve notion that the Taliban is some completely separate evil entity. The Taliban IS Afghanistan, MADE UP of Afghans.

[Hulia]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Rather than being butt-hurt about it, seek to understand why that is.

I understand it. More or less. because I am first world citizen too. I can afford to think about these things. 

But honestly, Leo, if somebody is going to behead me the least thing I want to know, how was their childhood.

What you are doing - you take a perspective of executioner. But not of a victim.  

[p1xelm0nk]

2 minutes ago, Hulia said:

I understand it. More or less. because I am first world citizen too. I can afford to think about these things. 

But honestly, Leo, if somebody is going to behead me the least thing I want to know, how was their childhood.

What you are doing - you take a perspective of executioner. But not of a victim.  

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you.

[Hulia]

7 minutes ago, Roy said:

Perhaps consider why it was so easy for the Taliban to take control of the country is because A LOT more people than we are willing to admit are either supportive of, or neutral in having the Taliban in charge. I'm sure most don't care who is in charge ultimately, they just want a unified government that will bring some stability. Though they definitely don't want white foreigners running their country after 75+ years of non-stop war and occupation.

There would have been WAY more resistance if most Afghans weren't content with letting the Taliban take control. They practically waltzed their way to the presidential palace.

We have to dispel this naïve notion that the Taliban is some completely separate evil entity. The Taliban IS Afghanistan, MADE UP of Afghans.

One more westerner who thinks that the people of other cultures enjoy to be tortured and killed.

There was no resistance because people hadn´t really any good alternative. Their government was deeply corrupt and the generals even more. I am almost sure, they had a secret deal with Taliban. The soldiers just didn´t know for what they should fight and die. Nobody trusts nobody. In this situation everyone just tries to survive on their own as good as they can. Under Taliban the survival will be harder for the majority of Afghans. 

[Leo Gura]

11 minutes ago, Hulia said:

But honestly, Leo, if somebody is going to behead me the least thing I want to know, how was their childhood.

Of course. That's called selfishness.

[Hulia]

4 minutes ago, p1xelm0nk said:

You really have no idea what you're talking about, do you.

I understand the perspective of the killer. But for what is it good? I would kill them, if I could, no matter how their childhood was. 

But for somebody sitting on the couch with an ice cream, 10.000 km away it might be an amazing thing to think about the poor killer. 

[Roy]

5 minutes ago, Hulia said:

Under Taliban the survival will be harder for the majority of Afghans. 

I'd be willing to bet money a lot less Afghans will die in the next decade, compared to the previous decade from NATO being in the region.

[Hulia]

@Roy

I wonder if there are some statistics, how many people died in Africa compared to those brought to America. Maybe slavery was not such a bad thing at the end?

[Gregory1]

@Leo Gura You really help me to make sense of societies and the dynamics at play in different parts of the world. Thank you for that! 

[p1xelm0nk]

37 minutes ago, Hulia said:

I understand the perspective of the killer.

If you understand their perspective than this whole thread makes no sense as you're basically admitting you agree with Leo as it's their perspective we're talking about here. The Taliban are a religious organization, they are some of the easiest people to understand how they see themselves as a force of good. It's almost common sense.

38 minutes ago, Hulia said:

But for what is it good? I would kill them, if I could, no matter how their childhood was. 

But for somebody sitting on the couch with an ice cream, 10.000 km away it might be an amazing thing to think about the poor killer. 

Very confused as to what point you're trying to make here. If someone were personally trying to behead Leo, of course he would defend himself, just as any of us here would. Nobody would be sitting around thinking about the "poor killer" or whatever.

This is a spiritual exercise in seeing how the ego functions, but you can't even do that because of how triggered you are by these simple facts.

[Leo Gura]

41 minutes ago, Hulia said:

Maybe slavery was not such a bad thing at the end?

Slavery good. Taliban bad.

Logic.

[Godhead]

1 hour ago, Hulia said:

I wonder if there are some statistics, how many people died in Africa compared to those brought to America. Maybe slavery was not such a bad thing at the end?

yikes

[Roy]

1 hour ago, Hulia said:

I wonder if there are some statistics, how many people died in Africa compared to those brought to America. Maybe slavery was not such a bad thing at the end?

I'm not advocating for suffering. In fact I want to minimize it as much as possible! Which sometimes means being forced to pick the lesser of two shitty options.

Your attitude on the other hand it seems is that you are too triggered to even accept that suffering exists at all, and want to manipulate reality to create options where there is no suffering, which of course ironically creates even more suffering in the struggle to do so.

[AtheisticNonduality]

If you had 100% empathy for a Taliban member, you would literally be them. So we are stuck with like 25% empathy or whatever.

[Leo Gura]

My point is not even about empathy. I don't really care about the Taliban. My point is: no other system will survive in that environment.

To expect women's rights in Afghanistan in this century is like expecting cavemen to fly to the moon. You can cry about it all you want, but you're just not understanding the developmental situation.

[DieFree]

If the U.S was led by competent people, and not morons who win elections simply by looking the part, then the government would run effective propaganda like "If the Prophet Muhammad's own wife Khadija bint Khuwaylid was a successful and independent business woman, why is the taliban refusing to let women out of the house to do their work. Does the taliban have a problem with the example of the blessed prophet?" 

[Endangered-EGO]

I'm sure a Gaddafi or Sadam Hussein would survive. Livestreaming dozens of executions every day.

Also, if there's enough money, communist authoritarianism and stalinism would survive in the cities.

[Hardkill]

26 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

My point is not even about empathy. I don't really care about the Taliban. My point is: no other system will survive in that environment.

To expect women's rights in Afghanistan in this century is like expecting cavemen to fly to the moon. You can cry about it all you want, but you're just not understanding the developmental situation.

I am glad that the US has finally withdrawn from Afghanistan, but what I still wonder is why most Afghanis in their own country did not like the kind of democratic government that we created for them for the past 20 years?