Everyone Acts From Good Intentions = No Free Will?

[Mason Riggle]

First, thank you @Leo Gura for another incredible video.  For everyone else, if you haven't watched it yet, well, I hope you do.  

*SPOILER ALERT* DIRECT QUOTES FROM VIDEO AHEAD

I've spent quite a bit of time here, on this forum, arguing against notions of 'Free Will', and one of the common pushbacks I get goes along the lines of, 'What difference does it make if I believe in Free Will or not? Why is this topic even worth discussing?' and I think this recent Video from Leo answers those exact questions.

"I want to share a simple but powerful principle with you that will help you to make sense of all human behaviour and the rest of your life... ...the principle is that every human being acts with good intention. That's it." - Leo Gura 

I would like to suggest here now, that this simple, yet powerful insight from Leo can be recognized as one of the implications of our lack of free will, and it is, in fact, this false notion of freedom that manifests and gives merit to notions of 'evil actors' (and in turn, notions of judgement, hatred, blame towards those actors).   This is to say, our belief that individuals are the ultimate source of their own actions and that they could have behaved otherwise is what prevents us from understanding the True source of all behavior, which is of course, Love. 

"No man chooses evil because it is evil; he only mistakes it for happiness, the good he seeks." - Mary Wollstonecraft

One thing that can be recognized, which I point out as often as possible, is that people always behave however they believe they should behave. I behave exactly as I believe I should in every moment, and I can not behave otherwise.  I always do 'that which my organism determines is best for it to do', ALWAYS. What a selfish fuck I am!  When a thief robs a gas station, it's because that is what he determined was the 'best' way to behave at the time. Had some other action occurred to him which he considered to be a 'better' action, he would have done that instead.  

Once it is realized that everyone is slave to 'what they believe they should do' and that no one has the ability to do otherwise (you could only do something other than what you think you should.. if that's what you think you should do, in which case you are still doing exactly what you think you should), then it's only a small leap to understanding that the entire Universe behaves this way, the same way the behavior of individual waves in the ocean are not 'self caused', but are just a function of  what the whole Ocean is doing, which is itself a function of what the Planet is doing, which is itself a function of what the entire Universe is doing. 

"the reason all this happens is because it must happen..." - Leo Gura

To understand that the entire Universe and everything in it is 'happening as it is because that's how it must' is to understand that there is no 'freedom' in Universe.. that it MUST be exactly how it Loves to be.  

It might be further recognized that there is no separation between 'you' and 'that which is not you', which is when the magic really happens.. 

"and if you can manage that then you have completely integrated all of reality within yourself … and then you're finally at peace regardless of what's going on around you" - Leo Gura

[gettoefl]

good stuff

however i suggest want would be better than should

should implies imposed from outside

want is what you are meaning i would say ... you want to do something means you do what is best for you 

apart from that, bang on and great elucidation and quotes

[Mason Riggle]

@gettoefl I always do exactly what I think I should do.. or 'what I want to do'.. same thing. 

[gettoefl]

1 minute ago, Mason Riggle said:

@gettoefl I always do exactly what I think I should do.. or 'what I want to do'.. same thing. 

should is what's acceptable

acceptable to who

the crowd

[The0Self]

1 hour ago, Mason Riggle said:

One thing that can be recognized, which I point out as often as possible, is that people always behave however they believe they should behave. I behave exactly as I believe I should in every moment, and I can not behave otherwise.  I always do 'that which my organism determines is best for it to do', ALWAYS.

Yep. And there can be a feeling of being of two minds; part of you wants to do one thing and another wants to do something else -- this is illusory, and it's precisely the suffering that meditation can allay. The truth is, you always do precisely what you desire -- you desire to do what you think is right for you -- even if you desire to have competing intentions that make you feel like you're not unified in your intention. When you're unified, intentions and actions just appear to happen automatically without deliberation. Kundalini awakening is the energetic counterpart to the stilling of these competing desires.

What you describe is kind of what Sam Harris has been saying for decades -- dropping the notion of free will has a positive moral component/consequence. Not that I really follow him these days.

Though I wouldn't say we really don't have free will, because if you were to go there, you'd have to also say there's no We to have it in the first place. There is only Free will (freedom; albeit unconditioned with no separation of any kind) = there is no free will.

Edited August 25, 2021 by The0Self

[AndylizedAAY]

9 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

should is what's acceptable

acceptable to who

the crowd

Depends if Mason Riggle agrees with the crowd or not on what is acceptable.

[gettoefl]

1 minute ago, AndylizedAAY said:

Depends if Mason Riggle agrees with the crowd or not on what is acceptable.

so that's why we have the word want to avoid confusion

[Mason Riggle]

12 minutes ago, gettoefl said:

should is what's acceptable

acceptable to who

the crowd

There is no 'what I should do'.. but there is 'what I think I should do'... and I always do whatever I think I should. 

[The0Self]

6 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

There is no 'what I should do'.. but there is 'what I think I should do'... and I always do whatever I think I should. 

But there can be deliberation before the mind lands on its decision -- due to competing intentions. The acceptable action based upon the votes of all these intentions gets played out. These competing intentions are specifically what meditation is used to still/unify. When they're stilled, it is bliss. Doubt falls away, as does shame; guilt; blame. Unified self honesty = meditation + figuring out what you desire.

Edited August 25, 2021 by The0Self

[gettoefl]

4 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

There is no 'what I should do'.. but there is 'what I think I should do'... and I always do whatever I think I should. 

how did you develop this should code ... why not consult what you desire

[Mason Riggle]

@gettoefl I'm sure we agree here.. as I said, I don't think there's anything I 'should' do.  I don't have a should code. I do exactly what I desire. 

[gettoefl]

Just now, Mason Riggle said:

@gettoefl I'm sure we agree here.. as I said, I don't think there's anything I 'should' do.  I don't have a should code. I do exactly what I desire. 

apologies for being so pedantic, what do you expect from a mad english teacher ... you did great with the above

[Mason Riggle]

9 minutes ago, The0Self said:

But there can be deliberation before the mind lands on its decision -- due to competing intentions. The acceptable action based upon the votes of all these intentions gets played out. These competing intentions are specifically what meditation is used to still/unify. When they're stilled, it is bliss.

Deliberation happens and intentions get played out.  Meditation happens if and when it does. 

[gettoefl]

in case anyone didn't see ... leo sneakily released a part two of this episode on his blog

https://www.actualized.org/insights/extra-insights-about-good-intentions

 

furthermore, there is a summary of this blog episode in the Actualized forum

[Mason Riggle]

@gettoefl juicy Goodness

[Leo Gura]

From the highest perspective God's Will is literally Absolute Good. And everything is God's Will.

[Thought Art]

Basically cuz God is alone he gets away with everything. (jokes)

Just like a taliban thinks he is good, the US solider dropping bombs on civilians thinks they are good.

God thinks it's Good. It's all perspective. 

The only 'Being' involved in any conflict is God with itself through it's own will. 

Edited August 26, 2021 by Thought Art

[AndylizedAAY]

On 8/25/2021 at 6:25 PM, gettoefl said:

so that's why we have the word want to avoid confusion

I'm sorry, I've been looking at this post for awhile and I still don't know what word you're referring to. Is it "should", "want", or some other word?

[AndylizedAAY]

10 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

Basically cuz God is alone he gets away with everything. (jokes)

Just like a taliban thinks he is good, the US solider dropping bombs on civilians thinks they are good.

God thinks it's Good. It's all perspective. 

The only 'Being' involved in any conflict is God with itself through it's own will. 

Are you saying that you're closeminded in Absolute Truth if God gets with everything? Are you saying that God is deluded if it thinks it's good? Are you referring to the Godhead? If not, then it would determine if Absolute Goodness is present.

Edited August 26, 2021 by AndylizedAAY
Needed to change lack of belief for closemindedness.

[Thought Art]

10 minutes ago, AndylizedAAY said:

Are you saying that you don't "believe" in Absolute Truth if God gets with everything? Are you saying that God is deluded if it thinks it's good? Are you referring to the Godhead?

I am joking

I don't believe absolute truth. I am it. Just an expression of finite aspects.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Thought Art