Las Vegas Salvia 80X Extract Trip Report: Hug Me, I’m Dying!

[Tim R]

Have you guys tried to lay off the drugs for a while? Like, all of them?

You will not notice the moment that you cross the line into abusive territory, trust me. Same goes for delusion. You will not know when it happens, especially if you think that you would notice. You won't, and then it's too late and you're fucked up for good. 

 

13 hours ago, EntheogenTruthSeeker said:

Also, it helps I have intense PTSD so I am suicidal regularly anyways

Right. That's kinda the last thing you want to hear in combination with shit like Salvia 80x

13 hours ago, EntheogenTruthSeeker said:

We are unique and rare individuals that are crazy as fuck and love new experiences and who have serious trauma and aren’t scared of much.

I can't even tell you how dangerous that kind of attitude can be.

 

Your behavior is immature beyond belief. I'm not saying this with a condescending demeanor, I'm trying to make you aware of what you're actually doing before you cross the invisible line.

Abusive behavior isn't limited to the amount or frequency of consumption. Using psychedelics to escape reality is just as dangerous as using alcohol or opiates, only less physically harmful.

You think you're untouchable and that nothing can fuck with you, that's not true. You think you will be able to handle everything, that's not true either. 

Take care of yourself.

[Leo Gura]

@Tim R Well said

[Preety_India]

@Tim R finally some sanity in a reply. 

I'm so tired of people abusing psychedelics. 

 

[Preety_India]

BTW Leo has already addressed this so many times. 

That is appreciated. 

[Thought Art]

Let's learn from our mistakes or immaturity around psychedelics and become good examples for others. Psychedelics aren't even the point, we are trying to become wise, integrated and spiritually mature human beings. The work we are doing is much bigger than taking some drugs, having fun, playing with spiritual masterbation ideas. For me, it's about evolving. A huge chunk of that is facing yourself, which is very painful but if we don't feel the pain we don't grow.

Last night I was craving a joint, but I instead did Qigong, journaled, practiced guitar and read sober. Sobriety, with a well planned trip every 2 weeks, or month is ideal for me given my direct experience and maturing. I now have a system and well thought out protocol to make the most of the trips for my growth. 

If we are serious about living the good live, we should be so busy learning, reading, meditating, doing yoga/Qigong/ breathwork, contemplating, going to classes, spending time in our area of mastery, taking online courses etc that we only have 1 day a week every two weeks to do a deep trip. Integrate it, contemplate it stay grounded and grow. I used to be in this mad rush to awaken. Now, I realize less is more. Balanced is better.

These tools, teachings and space should be aimed toward becoming mature, balanced and functional. Yes, mistakes happen, yes we are immature and young but the sooner we learn the better. 

We don't wanna end up in some shit situation that we can't come back from.

Wherever we are now, how ever we acted in the past. Let's rise together!

Edited August 25, 2021 by Thought Art

[Windappreciator]

@Thought Art @Preety_India @Tim R

Would you guys have replied with the same assumption that @EntheogenTruthSeeker is unstable if Leo hadn't formulated it beforehand?

[Tim R]

@Windappreciator

This is not the first time that I have uttered my criticism on a post by @EntheogenTruthSeeker because this is, as you may know, not his first time posting a thread that displays severely ungrounded and potentially harmful behavior. 

You really don't need Leo's opinion on any of this to see that it's getting out of hand. 

[Thought Art]

22 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

@Thought Art @Preety_India @Tim R

Would you guys have replied with the same assumption that @EntheogenTruthSeeker is unstable if Leo hadn't formulated it beforehand?

Oh yea, he openly admits it and I've seen him around on the forum for awhile. It's all love though! I've been ungrounded in the past.

I mean, at this point I think I am learning to make distinctions between a grounded spiritual practitioner and someone who is playing games and is ungrounded. Honestly, we are in deep waters here. This is life! We have to go through our process. Ideally though, we make it to land sooner than later.

A lot of us are young, and to become wise doesn't happen from watching a video even of the highest wisdom. We actually have to go out, try stuff, experience life, and change through trial and error and direct experience. Our programming, mental models, paradigm's addictions, and immaturity survive even the best and deepest video or book. 

It's a long term project. If we are young we got like 60ish years to grow. Ideally we grow over the next 10 years so we can live successful, beautiful, spiritual and practical lives full of joy, sobriety, clear thinking and understanding.

But, the waves are big and our rudder is malfunctioning. But, I am sure we can make it through..

Edited August 25, 2021 by Thought Art

[Windappreciator]

@Thought Art Oh ok. Nice parable. Thanks.

@Tim R Gotcha. Would you say you have the energy to nurture wounded people?

[Tim R]

1 minute ago, Windappreciator said:

@Tim R Gotcha. Would you say you have the energy to nurture wounded people?

@Windappreciator Generally, yes. Depends on how severe it is. 

[BipolarGrowth]

3 hours ago, Tim R said:

Have you guys tried to lay off the drugs for a while? Like, all of them?

You will not notice the moment that you cross the line into abusive territory, trust me. Same goes for delusion. You will not know when it happens, especially if you think that you would notice. You won't, and then it's too late and you're fucked up for good. 

 

Right. That's kinda the last thing you want to hear in combination with shit like Salvia 80x

I can't even tell you how dangerous that kind of attitude can be.

 

Your behavior is immature beyond belief. I'm not saying this with a condescending demeanor, I'm trying to make you aware of what you're actually doing before you cross the invisible line.

Abusive behavior isn't limited to the amount or frequency of consumption. Using psychedelics to escape reality is just as dangerous as using alcohol or opiates, only less physically harmful.

You think you're untouchable and that nothing can fuck with you, that's not true. You think you will be able to handle everything, that's not true either. 

Take care of yourself.

“Before Wasson nobody took the mushrooms only to find God. They were always taken for the sick to get well.” -Mariá Sabina, the woman who introduced psilocybin mushrooms to the western world

You can read more about her story and frustrations with modern western psychedelic use here https://www.singingtotheplants.com/2008/02/tragedy-of-maria-sabina/

 

I encourage all of the people who do not simultaneously share the clinical and recorded diagnoses of Bipolar Disorder Type 1 with Psychotic Features, ADHD, Generalized Anxiety Disorder, and PTSD to watch this video and contemplate on how a neurotypical perspective might be keeping you from sufficient nuance.

 

My friend who made this post is doing FAR better with his mental health than he was previously when following the advice of people who do not have the requisite life experiences (the mental illnesses mentioned above) to fully understand his various conditions and how they relate to spirituality and psychedelic use. His progress is quantifiable in a reduction of hospital visits, numerous job offers when employment was completely off the table before, better and more regular sleep, increased energy, motivation, confidence, and subjective/personal reports of improvement among other factors. 
 

I also suspect people have a feeling that salvia is more dangerous for people with bipolar disorder than common psychedelics. This is simply not the case and understandable to anyone who wishes to familiarize themselves with how neurotransmitters work differently in the bipolar brain and how classical psychedelics operate versus salvia. Salvia does not cause mania or depression nearly as much (possibly not at all on a chemical level, more data needed to confirm) as serotonergic psychedelics. This allows him to get the intense psychedelic experience his intuition craves with far less risk. 
 

I can tell that you all mean well, but you simply do not have adequate information. Proper advice on mental health oftentimes is outside the expertise of people with doctorate degrees in psychiatry and psychology, regularly outside the situational understanding of close family and friends, and almost always outside of the realm of those who are not at least one of the two options listed above. 
 

A final note on this whole psychedelic/mental health issue, our most notorious example of misuse and zen devilry is many things, but he is alive. No one can say for certainty if that would be the case if things had happened any differently. Out of the many people I know personally who have bipolar disorder, the ones who live productive lives of benefit to society without the need of medication did either a metric-fuck-ton of intense spiritual practice, psychedelics, or all of the above. 
 

In many ways, telling someone with bipolar disorder to stop taking psychedelics when you have limited knowledge on their specific case and a thorough understanding of bipolar disorder is akin to telling them to stop taking their medication and can prove just as fatal. 
 

The Buddha rightfully said that there is a path out of suffering, and combining spiritual practice, psychedelics, and proper medications in an incredibly nuanced and fluid way is the most effective path for those afflicted with bipolar disorder. Eastern spirituality + shamanism + modern western medicine is the way. I say this from personal experience, and I say this as someone who is still alive who likely wouldn’t be without using all three of those treatments in doses which would ruin the average neurotypical person’s mental health. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[Thought Art]

@BipolarGrowth No, we see your behaviour. Your spiritual ability may correlate with higher degrees of openness and neuroticism which makes sense to me, especially when we are young and trying to make sense of the world. IMO, you are both young and immature.  We aren't saying you aren't improving, or are capable of living a constructive life. We are saying, keep working on yourself, be responsible and mature. Chronically smoking weed, doing psychedelics when you are already struggling and are ungrounded can be throwing gas on the fire. 

Psychedelics can increase openness radically, which when we are all ready so open without proper grounding can lead to more delusion of grandure, meaning etc when in reality we are just SOOO open we aren't really grounded in a practical actuality that comes from deep inner work, journaling, meditation, Yoga, talk therapy, contemplation, reading self help books. To me these practices and sobriety make up 90% of spiritual effort. While 10% is substance use. Sure, that 10% might make up a good chunk of your deep results but that only works with a strong grounded psyche and practice imo. 

I've seen this TED talk and agree that different brain types require different ways of developing mastery. That doesn't take away from many of the points made here.  

This TED Talk also isn't your guys unique experiences. It's just some ideas.

Be mature, be honest and ground yourself. Just keep doing that.  We will all have our own paths to mastery depending on our unique circumstance.

Also, be wary when you KNOW you have all these diagnoses in defending yourself against people who don't. IMO, we tend not to see ourself accurately when we can't see reality clearly. I understand wanting to be understood. But, also... be humble I think. 

It's all love baby, no judgments here.

We are all on our own path.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Thought Art

[BipolarGrowth]

19 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

@BipolarGrowth No, we see your behaviour. Your spiritual ability may correlate with higher degrees of openness and neuroticism which makes sense to me, especially when we are young and trying to make sense of the world. IMO, you are both young and immature.  We aren't saying you aren't improving, or are capable of living a constructive life. We are saying, keep working on yourself, be responsible and mature. Chronically smoking weed, doing psychedelics when you are already struggling and are ungrounded can be throwing gas on the fire. 

I've seen this Ted talk and agree that different brain types require different ways of developing mastery. That doesn't take away from many of the points made here. 

Be mature, be honest and ground yourself. Just keep doing that.  

Any drug can be throwing fuel on the fire for us. Pretty much any drug used precisely can be a fire extinguisher. 
 

We both hear all of this same advice from others in our lives at different points. Sometimes people are giving that advice in the right way at the proper time and it is helpful, but sometimes people are giving that very same advice in the wrong way and at the wrong times. It is incredibly rare for any treatment or specific combination of treatments whether it be meditation, medication, or psychedelics to work for people with bipolar disorder consistently. Meditation triggers mania. Meditation cures depression. Meditation cures mania. Meditation causes depression. The same goes with almost all effective medications and psychedelics. 
 

I quit psychedelics for 8 months listening to the advice of others when it was proper for me. It was crucial for my mental health at the time. I think he should eventually do the same for a time, but I do not think this is that time whatsoever. His condition is steadily improving. Don’t fix what ain’t broken. Until it’s broken. Then fix it. There are also plenty of cases where I had to throw the recommendations of mental healthcare professionals, family, friends, and spiritual advisors in the trash where it belonged for the sake of improving my mental health when my intuition knew best. 
 

Also, in case there are any people who are encouraged to use psychedelics or do intense spiritual practice as a way of treating something, really try your best to get a good survival foundation first. A strong support system is key. We both were very lucky to have relatively wealthy families who love us dearly and try their best to help. There’s absolutely no guarantee that someone in a different situation would bode well if they simply did the same things we do. 

Edited August 25, 2021 by BipolarGrowth

[samijiben]

I don't mean to throw any shit in the cooking fire (if you know what I mean), but I would like to share a theme I have noticed with psychedelic use. 

Time and time again, it seems as though psychedelics are the real wild card of the spiritual journey, playing the "call to adventure" role, revealing the infinitude of possibilities in the universe. 

Psychedelics offer an outlet to dive into the realm of non-materiality. Because we are so ill-accustomed to that which lies outside our limiting, three-dimensional citadel of physical objects, we tend to crave the experience of that wonderful, joyous, undescribable place. However, sometimes we fail to honor this place. We need not treat it like an inner-Disneyland that we can visit at will to pig out on beer and rides and irresponsible things. We must regard this realm with honor. 

Leo misses in his teachings the "I-Thou" aspect of God. Many have talked about this, Wilber included, but most prominently Martin Buber, but that is entirely besides the point. All I mean to say is regarding God as oneself rather than as a Holy Other can become dangerous. That's what I have to say. 

[Leo Gura]

16 minutes ago, samijiben said:

it seems as though psychedelics are the real wild card of the spiritual journey, playing the "call to adventure" role

They are not the call to adventure, they are the Holy Grail