Why Becoming A Sage ?

[George Paul]

In his last video Leo claims that the new vision of the actualized.org would be becoming a sage.

Now I am really confused. But that's ok, it will pass.

The confusion steams from this: all my self improvement work was revolving around the illusory nature of the reality and finding the real nature of me, with all that those things implies, like killing the ego, forgetting what you were holding as truth , etc.

Now Leo proposes a new approach, in which you have to be knowledgeable enough, to embrace a relatively wide spectrum of fields, such as science, mysticism, arts, religion and maybe more, and to master your human being but not those fields. You have to study a lot. Meditation and enlightenment diminish in importance. Becoming a sage is of a higher importance and higher level.

 

For the moment I don't buy Leo's vision, because what I really want is to know myself and the ultimate nature of the reality. If that implies being  a sage, that's ok, if not, I don't care, I don't want to write books or give speeches, I only want to understand me.

So don't you think that Leo is parting from a well established goal and well grounded system that he have thought us so far , to a questionable and maybe selfish approach, as becoming  a sage, meaning that you become something, which is in contradiction with zen  ?

 

Edited: one of the weak part of Leo's last video ( in my opinion) was that he mentioned several times Osho's teaching and once Sadhguru, among others. But Osho was mentioned the most. Strangely, recently I just came to the conclusion that Osho is partially scam, some parts  of what he teaches is comprised of jokes and false, non-existent, suppositions, misinterpretations of other religions and people.

 

 

 

Edited December 4, 2016 by George Paul

[Prabhaker]

3 minutes ago, George Paul said:

In his last video Leo claims that the new vision of the actualized.org would be becoming a sage.

What does it mean ? Renounce society ? 

[George Paul]

1 minute ago, Prabhaker said:

What does it mean ? Renounce society ? 

He says that we, the adepts, should have as our goal to become a sage. Kinda Osho, not in isolation, but in the world.

Edited December 4, 2016 by George Paul

[Prabhaker]

Just now, George Paul said:

He says that we, the adepts, should have as our goal to become a sage.

How a sage is different from an ordinary man ?

[George Paul]

Just now, Prabhaker said:

How a sage is different from an ordinary man ?

They are a living encyclopedia. 

[Prabhaker]

Just now, George Paul said:

They are a living encyclopedia. 

Too much bookish knowledge is hindrance in path of meditation.

[George Paul]

Just now, Prabhaker said:

Too much bookish knowledge is hindrance in path of meditation.

Yes, now you have understood why I opened this topic.

[Prabhaker]

23 minutes ago, George Paul said:

there are plenty of other highly appreciated gurus in the world

Highly appreciated guru is a often false guru, a real guru is always controversial , society can't tolerate a person who speaks truth.

[Bebop]

This path is mainly for people who want to master themselves and get the most out of life, which is something I've been committing myself to. I don't think hes saying that you have to go out and start teaching this stuff to other people but rather lead through example and make your own personal impact of the world through your work. This is more stuff to add onto what you are already doing, which is why most people probably won't want to commit themselves to this because it requires a lot of discipline and hard work

[Martin123]

Is this the actualized.org cult?

Your life is your life. You can do whatever you want. Leo's life is his life and his channel is his channel. If he decides to start giving advice about cocaine parties, it is none of your business.

Find teachers that suit you, don't get too attached to them, because none of them can represent your life's journey fully.  Every life is fully and completely unique!

[George Paul]

3 minutes ago, Martin123 said:

Is this the actualized.org cult?

Your life is your life. You can do whatever you want. Leo's life is his life and his channel is his channel. If he decides to start giving advice about cocaine parties, it is none of your business.

Find teachers that suit you, don't get too attached to them, because none of them can represent your life's journey fully.  Every life is fully and completely unique!

True. Wow, actually what you just said is enlightening. Thnx. I was stuck with Leo's teachings.

Edited December 4, 2016 by George Paul

[ZeN]

Becoming a sage is the perfect answer to the conundrum of combining Self-Actualization and Personal Development with Enlightenment.

After the realization of Enlightenment one understands the meaninglessness of the aforementioned topics but paradoxically this also fuels the drive for realising the maximum potential in the human avatar aka Personal Development and raising awareness and consciousness on a global level.

There is noone to become and nothing to achieve but at the same time the choice can be made to make the most of our precious time here in this wonderful existence  

[Tancrede Pouyat]

@George Paul I was expecting this topic. It sounds like you don't really know what living the life of a sage means, maybe learn more about Peter Ralston, or Gandhi, I even consider Martin Ball to be a sage (after having just finished reading his autobiography yesterday).

Also, what @Martin123 said makes perfect sense, too. You decide how you want to live your life. I would personally enjoy living the life of a sage, I just like the whole paradigm by which you live life.

@ZeN It's funny how people don't see that personal development is required to become enlightened, the ego needs to be built up before it can be transcended. Most of them could never endure 5-MeO in a million years if they stayed the way the are. And it's also funny how they don't seem to realize that believing that reality is an illusion is part of the illusion.

[Martin123]

@Tancrede Pouyat Not always. Look at examples like Eckhart Tolle - enlightenment just happened with no prior work. I would say that as you do personal development, you are able to understand the paradoxes of life better, and that allows you to understand enlightenment conceptually, which makes you more prone to liberation. 

[Bebop]

@Martin123 Agreed its more of a perspective change rather than something to be worked towards, seems like Eckhart Tolle just completely surrendered to himself in order to realize his true nature whether it was intentional or not. I find that reading books on non duality and enlightenment have helped me more than the actual enlightenment work itself

[hundreth]

I think it's really interesting and not all that surprising that Leo decided to walk on the path towards becoming a sage. Check out this article that goes into depth about spiral dynamics and levels of consciousness for each of the Enneagram archetypes: http://www.goconscious.com/home/articles/levels_of_consciousness_and_the_enneagram.html

I'm not saying I'm too into boxing people into types, but I recall @Leo Gura mentioning he was an INTP - and it just so happens the most fully actualized form for his archetype is an enlightened sage  (According to this view.) So this could be the perfect path to take FOR LEO.

That said, there are different archetypes with different fully actualized forms. Take a look:

 

 

You may find your calling to be more adventurous, or less involved with society altogether. It's OKAY. If we are true to ourselves, we will find ourselves expressing what is deep inside us.

Edited December 4, 2016 by hundreth

[ZeN]

@Tancrede Pouyat I agree. Maybe a better wording would be that we need Personal Development in order to reach the realisation that we dont need Personal Development (ie. "achieve" Enlightenment) and when we have that understanding we can still choose to utilize Personal Development (becoming a sage) because there really is no better alternative than that to reach our maximum potential as humans. 

I cant imagine a "bigger" nor all-encompassing life purpose than that - learn, experience and become aware of everything that humans are capable of learning, experiencing and knowing. Per aspera ad astra! The sky is the limit!

[George Paul]

1 hour ago, Tancrede Pouyat said:

@George Paul I was expecting this topic. It sounds like you don't really know what living the life of a sage means, maybe learn more about Peter Ralston, or Gandhi, I even consider Martin Ball to be a sage (after having just finished reading his autobiography yesterday).

Also, what @Martin123 said makes perfect sense, too. You decide how you want to live your life. I would personally enjoy living the life of a sage, I just like the whole paradigm by which you live life.

@ZeN It's funny how people don't see that personal development is required to become enlightened, the ego needs to be built up before it can be transcended. Most of them could never endure 5-MeO in a million years if they stayed the way the are. And it's also funny how they don't seem to realize that believing that reality is an illusion is part of the illusion.

wrong, true, wrong

wrong: i know what a sage is, I only say that I could never be one

true: yes, I can decide for myself to be or not a sage

wrong: personal development has little to nothing to do with enlightenment which has little to nothing to do with being a sage

[Martin123]

@Snick You sure? You sure that is not just your ego trying to make you feel special? There is nothing to be fixed about society. (not saying you shouldnt strive to make your contribution, but from a place if "We shall change the bad bad bad people in the world" it is compulsive and unnecesarily suffering generating and inefficient. 

[The Monk]

@George Paul Becoming a sage, implies you have a vast amount of knowledge of everything, in order to aid humanity. As well as the knowledge of how to best interpret meditation, and therefore because you this you are a master of all things. Enlightenment, life purpose, you name it. 

As, for the importance of it, I'm sure depends on whether or not you are accurately perceiving it. As to me it seems tremendously important. 

As for Osho, I don't know, but I want to be a damn sage, that's for sure.