What's alternative to prayer?

[Tim R]

@Someone here

3 hours ago, Someone here said:

3 hours ago, Tim R said:

Problems are created by and exist only in the mind. No thinking, no problems

Sorry not sure how this is true. 

If you burn yourself on the stove.. How is that pain a function of your thoughts? 

It's not the physical sensation of pain that is created by thought, it's your considering of this sensation as a "problem", that is created by thought, or more accurately, is thought. All problem is thought.

There are no such things as "problems" in the real world. Have you ever seen a problem laying around somewhere? What color do problems have? What do they weigh? Do they smell of anything? Can you measure them? Can you feel them?

Notice that "problems" exist only in your mind. 

And on a deeper level, this "problem" is only a problem because it threatens your survival, i.e. your identity. But I consider "identification" as a form of thought - or certainly as a function/manifestation of mind. 

[Someone here]

@Nahm I did talk about my problems here on the forum in the past. 

Mostly suffering from anxiety. Mild depression. Existential fears like fear of death. And having to work while being a uni student simultaneously. 

 am not a laid back person. I never have been. I worry and get stressed and can be quite negative sometimes. Last year, this started to get slowly worse.

It took a long time to notice it but I lost control of how stressed I was getting. I would randomly start crying in the taxi on the way to a party or struggle to answer the phone at work because I was terrified. I felt like I was losing my mind – thoughts were racing constantly and I kept seeing images in my head of death.

Then one day at work I had my first SEVERE panic attack. Nothing happened, I was just at my desk replying to emails and then suddenly I felt myself losing it. It was like I just couldn’t cope anymore with anything. I didn’t know I was having a panic attack at the time – all I remember is feeling like I was going die.

I did post about my issues before and you were always trying to help me. So thanks for That. 

[Someone here]

@Tim R

Remind me of the distinction between pain and suffering. And, of course, there can be suffering without pain. In fact, most of our suffering has nothing to do with pain. It is indeed induced by negative emotions like sadness, shame or guilt, or by situations like deprivation of freedom, loneliness, distress, depression, empathy, social rejection, oppression, etc. Imo The importance of understanding suffering cannot be overstated. Avoiding or lessening suffering is one of the major goals of our lives, and therefore it has a tremendous social  significance. In view of that, it is strange that we don’t allocate more resources to research on suffering. In most cases pain =suffering. sources of suffering like disease and hunger, but it is also clear that a lot of suffering is internally generated. But that's not the case most of the time. Most of the time pain =suffering. 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Someone here

[Nahm]

@Someone here

Some people meditate daily for the benefits. Some have to hit rock bottom. Apparently. 

Don’t try to change anxiety, listen to it and change your perspectives. 

[Someone here]

@Nahm I'm not even anxious about specific things. I'm just anxious lol  

My therapist told me Anxiety is a normal, human feeling of fear or panic. When we face stressful situations, it can set off our brain’s in-built alarm bell system, which tells us something isn’t right and that we need to deal with it. Our brain wants the difficult situation to go away, so it makes us feel more alert, stops us thinking about other things, and even pumps more blood to our legs to help us run away.

Most of us worry sometimes – about things like friendships or money – and feel anxious when we’re under stress, like at exam time. But afterwards we usually calm down and feel better. 

The difference in my case is that I'm not anxious about specific things (except maybe death).  But it's for no reason at all. My case is very strange 

I take medications now and I hope I get better soon. 

I will try to upgrade my meditation practice as well, in listening to your advice. 

 

Edited August 24, 2021 by Someone here

[roopepa]

@Someone here

Many of us here on the forum has gone through suffering, even the most intense forms of it. We understand how you feel. I've personally had drug & alcohol addiction, depression, anxiety & panic attacks, even psychosis. Nowadays I'm feeling better than ever. Eager to see what life can be for me. And I want you to know that this is possible for you too. However bad it may see, there is always a better perspective, a better feeling thought.

Right at the borders of your focus, there is an infinite amount of good-feeling thoughts and perspectives. You are free to choose which ones you most desire. Do you recognize this? Do you recognize that your mind literally creates your experience? Set the intention, feel into your body and you will find the relief.

You are an emotionally guided being. What you desire most above all other experiences, things, and people, is to feel good. You will even choose feeling over your ideas of truth. This is not a mistake in you, nor some kind of hedonist philosophy - this is the very Truth guiding you. This is what Nahm refers to as the "sense-ational guidance". The most direct communication with the divine is via feeling:

"Joy, truth, love. These three are interchangeable, and one always leads to the other. It matters not in which order they are placed."

To put it as simply as possible: when you feel bad, that is the soul telling you that you're off from your true awesome self. When you feel good, that is the soul shouting YES!

"Feeling is the language of the soul."

When you are done with suffering, you will begin watching your mind and feeling. It will all become very clear step by step. Your philosophy turns inside-out. So far, most of it has just been emotional baggage.

^ Something is lagging here so for some reason the link goes for some Aaron Abke video even though it's not what I linked there. I don't know if it's just on my end.

Edited August 24, 2021 by roopepa

[Nahm]

@Someone here

Feel for ya brother. Keep your head up, things will get easier. 

[Someone here]

@roopepa thank you. 

It's hard for me to focus on anything good or positive while dealing with this intense stress and anxiety. 

It took me a long time to realise I had anxiety because my anxiety doesn't necessarily manifest itself in panic attacks.

I would describe my anxiety more like an intense dread.

My anxiety is more like I can feel my whole body shutting down, I freeze and my brain freezes too I become overcome with tears and I cant talk...especially to describe what is wrong... it sucks and it happens all the time. 

It also occurs in social siutations...its like and invisible wall suddenly descends around me and starts to close in...and it's like Im trapped in it and so can't communicate with other people nearby...yet in a way i also don't want to...the wall keeps me safe inside...but it is also terribly lonely in there and i want ot get out.  So its strange conflicitng feeling of wanting to break out but being unnable to move.

I'm probably rambling right now.. But anyways. Thanks for trying to help 

[gettoefl]

the only prayer for me

thank you existence for one more shot at life for waking me to the beauty all around me

i've screwed up plenty in time gone by but now the slate is clean since you have put air in my lungs and are giving me today

give me awareness today, slow me down to see what is unfolding, quicken my heart when i see the sublime the magical, break my heart for what breaks yours

use me today and let me be worthy of this astonishing opportunity to be present at this pinnacle of evolution

let me measure my day in laughter in tears in in moments of creativity and loving sensitivity

give me my coffee and my bread and all will be brilliant

 

[The0Self]

Stop the mind almost as if you're dumb and staring off into space, BUT with clear awareness instead of hazy. Awareness staring-at/being everything in its field, inseparable from the field; objects inseparable from the field. As if you let the mind and body fall asleep, but the awareness/appearance/everything is wide awake. It's almost like spacing out yet it's literally the true exact opposite of spacing out. "Shining" would be a good word for it.

Edited August 25, 2021 by The0Self

[28 cm unbuffed]

@Someone here 

Take a look at your nervous system, it helped me a lot. I removed all stressors from my life, like caffeine, changed my diet, exercise regularly, and try to have good sleep hygiene. These are the basics and only after you will get those handled out you can think about prayers, look for therapy, etc. IMO, as these are things that your human nature demands from you. 

When it comes to anxiety relief try with adaptogens supplementation, something like Ashwagandha f.e, also check yourself when it comes to work-life balance, things like relaxing and play are more important thank you think when it comes to your well being. Feel into your body. Being shy and distant in social situations just means there is too much stress in your body and/or you lack social interactions. 

Meditate more, if not as a habit - do it when it comes to day to day situations - observe yourself when you have anxiety/panic attacks and try to catch triggers or just let it play out - a lot of these things are just subconscious programs that have to play out and sometimes they are tools that have to play out to release stress from your body. That's why it's better to deal with it for yourself with sports, meditation, sex, etc.

Good luck, if these problems will last, feel free to pm me

[Nahm]

Something to ponder, maybe it helps, ‘clicks’, maybe not… anxiety as an experience can be resolved because it is related only to very specific thoughts & beliefs, namely about yourself. But, when the anxiety is identified with, it can not be resolved, sans no longer believing it is indicative of you, true about you, or normal, or that others experience it too. This is the belief there are separate individuals, and that is the discordant feeling. It’s not quite fair to say it’s dishonest, but it certainly isn’t true. When it is believed X is happening to you - this is a powerless position. When you are creating it - you can create what resonates instead. You probably don’t think of death as a false belief about yourself. But if you actually listened to feeling (rather than labelling it) you’d realize this is the case. The “anxiety” tells you so. One can not suffer enough to be happy, one can not think enough to let a belief go.

[snowyowl]

@Someone here I so empathise with your anxiety, it's like an invisible disability. My whole life I identified as being highly introverted, also suffering from anxiety. Only a couple of weeks ago (I'm in my 50s) I had a thundering realisation that these aren't two separate things at all, the social anxiety is the introversion! 

"how can I pray to God if I'm God ultimately?" Out of interest, how do you pray? The usual technique is talking at God, making demands such as 'Give us this day our daily bread', and hardly pausing to listen for a reply. But if there's no separation between you and God, then talking and listening is a single process. Have you tried a contemplative style prayer like Quakerism or Taize? 

Ultimately, pure listening becomes a nondual passive meditation  like awareness of awareness. But combining that nondual practice with a dual practice like talking/listening to God sounds to me like it covers all bases. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by snowyowl

[Someone here]

@Nahm thank you man for  trying to help and offering new perspective. 

 

@snowyowl Chronic anxiety is messy and unpredictable, overpowering and insidious, physical and mental, and at times so unexpectedly debilitating I’m unable to speak or think clearly or even move.

But even those words don’t describe exactly what I’m trying to say. I’ve turned to visual language to help illustrate what I mean, when words aren’t quite enough. 

I used to pray when I was a little kid.. Especially when I lost something (like my toys) or when I get sick or something.  It's not wether or not God will reply to me.. It's more of the relief that I am experiencing these  moments.  But now I'm kinda becoming an atheist or pantheist.. I'm not reall sure If God is "out there" somewhere listening to me. So then I feel like prayer is pointless if God does not exist as a separate entity from myself. And apparently there is no point in praying to myself if I am God. I should just go and makes things happen. 

 

[TheSelf]

@Someone here

Those who don't abide in the self, meditate on God outside themselves, whichever works for you is fine. 

If you don't like to meditate or turn within then prayer is totally fine.

Pray to your higher-self which is taking care of you from the moment you entered this world.

God is inside not outside or vice versa is just bunch of thoughts.

[Nahm]

God is not a separate entity, and you are not a separate entity or being, and yet you are not God, you are you. ANY time you ever check within, like “are you listening God, are you here for me”, you will feel & know (exactly as you are sharing you knew as a kid) God is ALWAYS there for you, rootin for you, loving the absolute bejesus outta you, infinitely showering you with love. Always & without any possibility of exception. God never questions your worthiness, deservedness, value, plans, purpose, actions, behaviors, etc. Pure unconditional. Your greatest fan. In this sense, prayer, meditation, yoga - it doesn’t matter what or how, or what we call it, when you ‘go to’ God, when you set time aside, God will melt all conditions away. 

[TheSelf]

1 minute ago, Nahm said:

God is not a separate entity, and you are not a separate entity or being, and yet you are not God, you are you. ANY time you ever check within, like “are you listening God, are you here for me”, you will feel & know (exactly as you are sharing) God is ALWAYS there for you, rootin for you, loving the absolute bejesus outta you, infinitely showering you with love. Always & without any possibility of exception. God never questions your worthiness, deservedness, value, plans, purpose, actions, behaviors, etc. Pure unconditional. Your greatest fan. In this sense, prayer, meditation, yoga - it doesn’t matter what or how, or what we call it, when you ‘go to’ God, when you set time aside, God will melt all conditions away. 

Beautiful! ??

[Someone here]

4 minutes ago, m0hsen said:

Pray to your higher-self which is taking care of you from the moment you entered this world

The problem is that I'm not sure if such a thing exists. 

[Someone here]

6 minutes ago, Nahm said:

God is not a separate entity, and you are not a separate entity or being, and yet you are not God, you are you. ANY time you ever check within, like “are you listening God, are you here for me”, you will feel & know (exactly as you are sharing you knew as a kid) God is ALWAYS there for you, rootin for you, loving the absolute bejesus outta you, infinitely showering you with love. Always & without any possibility of exception. God never questions your worthiness, deservedness, value, plans, purpose, actions, behaviors, etc. Pure unconditional. Your greatest fan. In this sense, prayer, meditation, yoga - it doesn’t matter what or how, or what we call it, when you ‘go to’ God, when you set time aside, God will melt all conditions away. 

Very beautiful. It's even good to use for a prayer lol. 

[TheSelf]

Just now, Someone here said:

The problem is that I'm not sure if such a thing exists. 

If it doesn't exist then why the hell in the world there's nothing like literally nothing like praying to God feels so good and peaceful? 

Start praying and check if you feel different after or in the middle of prayer even if you not sure it exist or not, your feeling will tell you that the prayer works! All the time!