The materialist argument on consciousness seems convincing

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, Marcel said:

Gosh, this really is a complete mindfuck.

Nuances are really breaking my mind sometimes.

"God doesn´t sleep" lmao

This really made me laugh for some reason.

But i think i get it.

If God would just turn "off" the freaking universe would collapse.

Just notice the following fact:

Every time you think "I slept" you are actually awake. The trick here is that in fact you have never slept, you've been awake for Eternity, but you tell yourself that you have slept. But every time you tell yourself you've slept, you're wide awake.

7 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

@Leo Gura Do not all points of view exist?

if it's being experienced, highest POV to lowest POV, is it then therefore within the realm of existence? And so wouldn't it be useful to come to understand, all the levels of existence?

Can we understand the hightest POV if we don't have a comprehension of the continuum there? 

Well, the low POVs are your human material experience. So you have plenty of experience with how that works. My role here is to point you towards the highest POV.

It's really mindfucky because once you reach the top you even realize that the continuum is imaginary.

[Johnny Galt]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

It's really mindfucky because once you reach the top you even realize that the continuum is imaginary.

By saying that it's imaginary, are you saying, it's not "real"?

If that is case, how can that be, considering that it's within the realm of experience and existence? 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

By saying that it's imaginary, ar you saying, it's not "real"?

If that is case, how can that be, considering that it's within the realm of experience and existence? 

Everything you define as "real" is imaginary.

Imaginary means you can unimagine it. In other words, you can unimagine the moon, and it will disappear. Everything can be unimagined expect your capacity to imagine.

[Johnny Galt]

@Leo Gura Consider the hermetic principles and the first law - all is mind. Can you work with that principle, and yet then disregard all the other principles? Like the moon, can you un-imagine the laws of polarity and therefore make it disappear? 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[Leo Gura]

All is Mind. That's what I say. Mind is Infinite Imagination.

There are no forms outside the Mind.

It's very simple. Stop making it complicated. Stop dreaming up forms which are supposed to exist outside of imagination.

[Johnny Galt]

@Leo Gura who said anything about forms outside the mind? 

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Johnny Galt said:

@Leo Gura who said anything about forms outside the mind? 

That is your worldview.

You keep imagining shit and then acting like it exists independent of your imagination.

That's the whole game you are playing. There is no other game in town.

[Brivido]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Stop listening to Kant. He had no idea what he was talking about.

@Leo Gura In The Book Of Not Knowing, Peter Ralston gives praises to Kant, it doesn't make sense to me how someone like Ralston can't see the obvious limits of Kant's thought. The philosophy of Kant is utterly dualistic, with his division between the phenomena and the noumenon, which is  the division between matter and spirit (consciousness). 

[Leo Gura]

Ralston understands Kant's limits. To praise a man is not to praise all of his ideas.

Although I would not praise Kant so much. In my opinion Kant is overrated, as all the Western philosophers tend to be.

[Johnny Galt]

@Leo Gura

6 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You keep imagining shit and then acting like it exists independent of your imagination.

When Have I "acted" like it, the shit I imagined, exists independent of my imagination?

All is mind and so how can anything be outside that? 

 

[Leo Gura]

@Johnny Galt I'm speaking broadly about people. Not necessarily you in this thread.

[Johnny Galt]

@Leo Gura Fair enough

[The0Self]

It makes sense only if you have unfalsifiable beliefs — namely that there exists something outside of consciousness.

If you’re self honest and uproot self deception, materialism is utterly and literally insane — much like believing that if you believe that someone named Jesus 2000 years ago arose from the dead (how random...), you’ll go to Heaven... so basically just believing as you’re told.

[Adamq8]

Oh but according to materialism owns metaphysics you should not be concious and that the brain makes you think you are concious,  oh lol ?????

[Nahm]

 @SaWaSaurus

Without argument, for the meditative mind if you will, this is most simple. Is I a thought, like any other thought - or a significant thought, an identity? Does I point to something outward, or some’thing’ ineffable, inward?

[Blackhawk]

@SaWaSaurus How is it possible that consciousness/life/sentience/qualia emerges from dead matter? It would be like making wine from only water.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Adamq8]

21 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

@SaWaSaurus How is it possible that consciousness/life/sentience/qualia emerges from dead matter? It would be like making wine from only water.

Oh but conciousness is an illusion only ?? 

[kamwalker]

On 8/23/2021 at 8:38 PM, Leo Gura said:

The truth is more twisted than you can stomach: sleep never happens. Right now you are consciousness imagining that you have ever slept. You never actually sleep, you only imagine so.

The materialist argument is not convincing for even 1 minute if you just realize that all material objects are just appearances within consciousness. The end. No materialist can counter that.

You cannot kill consciousness without killing materialism, because materialism is consciousness. But consciousness is not materialism.

But why does this matter? Who cares if we are just consciousness imagining sleep, eating, fucking? Being conscious of the illusion does not feel impactful to the present moment to me.

[Leo Gura]

1 hour ago, kamwalker said:

But why does this matter? Who cares if we are just consciousness imagining sleep, eating, fucking? Being conscious of the illusion does not feel impactful to the present moment to me.

You imagine you are conscious of the illusion, but you are not. Therefore you feel no impact.

If you actually became conscious of what I am talking about, it would change your whole life.

[SriSriJustinBieber]

4 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You imagine you are conscious of the illusion, but you are not. Therefore you feel no impact.

If you actually became conscious of what I am talking about, it would change your whole life.

One could argue that it most probably wouldn't in substantial ways because you would see the relevancy of what you imagined in the first place