The materialist argument on consciousness seems convincing

[Agoy]

8 hours ago, DocWatts said:

When you claim that physical reality is a projection of consciousness

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Correct

Is projection preferable over perception?

[Leo Gura]

2 minutes ago, Regan said:

Is projection preferable over perception?

All preference is arbitrary, relative bias -- selfishness.

In truth nothing is preferable to anything else.

[Agoy]

So in essence both are pointing towards the same thing and it doesn't matter which is used?

[Leo Gura]

3 minutes ago, Regan said:

So in essence both are pointing towards the same thing and it doesn't matter which is used?

It depends on how you define your terms. These are complex terms with many subtle meanings and relativistic definitions.

[roopepa]

14 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

I am making the claim that I am however you imagine me to be.

I am right now imagining you reading this sitting on a quite expensive black office seat, in a fairly small room. There is a desktop computer, not a laptop. There might be a bookshelf left from you. This room is on the second floor of the building.

Am I imagining it the way the imaginary Leo would say is correct or in a way he says it's incorrect? 

Edit: Actually, don't answer that because if I were right, I would have a panic attack.

Edited August 24, 2021 by roopepa

[Leo Gura]

8 minutes ago, roopepa said:

I am right now imagining you reading this sitting on a quite expensive black office seat, in a fairly small room. There is a desktop computer, not a laptop. There might be a bookshelf left from you. This room is on the second floor of the building.

Am I imagining it the way the imaginary Leo would say is correct or in a way he says it's incorrect? 

Edit: Actually, don't answer that because if I were right, I would have a panic attack.

Whatever my answer, you would be imagining it.

You are desperately trying to offload ownership of your imagination onto anything but yourself. So you turn to me or someone else, anyone else, and in so doing your fool yourself that you are not the one God who made all this shit up.

It's like you're inside a dream asking your dream characters to reassure you that the dream is really real. But you are only playing mind games with yourself. And no amount of asking others will help you, since all "others" are your mind game.

[Thought Art]

19 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Whatever my answer, you would be imagining it.

You are desperately trying to offload ownership of your imagination onto anything but yourself. So you turn to me or someone else, anyone else, and in so doing your fool yourself that you are not the one God who made all this shit up.

It's like you're inside a dream asking your dream characters to reassure you that the dream is really real. But you are only playing mind games with yourself. And no amount of asking others will help you, since all "others" are your mind game.

As I sit and read about you two talking, imagining you exist.

I still can't tell if I understand this line of thought contextually. 

I felt like I grocked what consciousness is... But the grocking is fleeting. I still don't know how to harness it, or if it is harnessable. but, if I am fooling myself I am good at it. It's like I've been doing it for awhile or something.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Thought Art

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Thought Art said:

if I am fooling myself I am good at it.

You're certainly a clever fuck

[Thought Art]

1 minute ago, Leo Gura said:

You're certainly a clever fuck

Only game in town

[Leo Gura]

27 minutes ago, eaaaeaeae said:

But definitely something is wrong with reality like it makes jokes to you for no reason.

[Carl-Richard]

On 24.8.2021 at 1:27 AM, SaWaSaurus said:

As the argument goes, consciousness arises within you at some point after your conception

Imagine where you were before your conception. You've always been there. It never stopped existing. "But complete nothingness, darkness, void surely doesn't exist, does it?" YES IT DOES!! 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Stovo]

Reading this thread has just caused me to have some realisations. I am contemplating it now. 

[Stovo]

F***ing hell... I don't exist 

[Jodistrict]

I have been able to still feel cold while sleeping in a cold room.   But, I don’t know if that applies to general anesthesia.   What if there is a consciousness so deep that you can’t remember it?  That seems to be suggested by the reincarnation model, in that, we can’t remember our consciousness in a past life or before we were born, but advanced Buddhist monks can access these experiences through meditation.

[Leo Gura]

2 hours ago, Jodistrict said:

but advanced Buddhist monks can access these experiences through meditation.

They imagine it.

The only thing there is to access is God's imagination.

[Danioover9000]

   Will there be a video covering reincarnation and evolution?

P.S. This all reminds me or the movie 'Old Boys'. It's a pretty good movie, that has a loopy ending which puts the main character in deep denial. Worth the watch for the insights into imagination.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Danioover9000

[Carl-Richard]

7 minutes ago, Danioover9000 said:

Will there be a video covering reincarnation and evolution?

What is the connection there? Or did you mean two separate videos?

[Leo Gura]

Evolution yes. Reincarnation not interested.

[Leo Gura]

7 minutes ago, Marcel said:

@Leo Gura

I feel confused. How does sleep not happen?

I agree with it being imagined, but it still "happens" in that sense, even if it is imagined.

Or am i completely contradicting myself right now?

From the highest POV, NOW is all that exists. Which means you are imagining that you have ever slept.

The past is imaginary. Past is imagined in the NOW.

God doesn't sleep. God imagines that it has slept in the past.

It's a mindfuck. You have to stop assuming that the past ever happened.

[Johnny Galt]

8 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

From the highest POV, NOW is all that exists. Which means you are imagining that you have ever slept.

@Leo Gura Do not all points of view exist?

if it's being experienced, highest POV to lowest POV, is it then therefore within the realm of existence? And so wouldn't it be useful to come to understand, all the levels of existence?

Can we understand the hightest POV if we don't have a comprehension of the continuum there? 

Edited August 25, 2021 by Johnny Galt