I Can't Express Myself Freely On This Forum

[Brandon Nankivell]

https://giphy.com/explore/michael-jackson-popcorn

[Synnergy]

9 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

   Really? When someone has experienced growth, what happens?

I agree, @Danioover9000!

Moreover, what does it mean to be a conservative? That's an important question.

Conservativism stands for the building blocks of a functional society, which are liberty, freedom of speech, Capitalism, and Democracy. If you succeed in creating such a society, you want to protect it and preserve it. That's where borders come into place. Those who want to migrate to a civilized country must adopt those four principles. Diversity without assimilation leads to tribalism and chaos; history tells us that.

1. Liberty. It means that you need to be responsible for your own life and take care of yourself, not expecting the government to offer you a paycheck. When you're working, you're not a pariah because you contribute to the society you live in.

2. Freedom of speech. People have a need to speak freely. Enough said!

3. Capitalism. You must allow people to build businesses and offer people jobs; it is the greatest way to solve problems. I love YouTube, Amazon, Tesla, etc.

4. Democracy. We choose our leaders by voting.

That is true conservativism and there's nothing wrong with being a conservative.

[Raphael]

15 minutes ago, Synnergy said:

1. Liberty. It means that you need to be responsible for your own life and take care of yourself, not expecting the government to offer you a paycheck. When you're working, you're not a pariah because you contribute to the society you live in.

2. Freedom of speech. People have a need to speak freely. Enough said!

3. Capitalism. You must allow people to build businesses and offer people jobs; it is the greatest way to solve problems. I love YouTube, Amazon, Tesla, etc.

4. Democracy. We choose our leaders by voting.

That is true conservativism and there's nothing wrong with being a conservative.

This lack nuances. These points are all valid from a perspective, but they are limitations to all of them.

Edited August 24, 2021 by Raphael

[Carl-Richard]

43 minutes ago, Synnergy said:

1. Liberty. It means that you need to be responsible for your own life and take care of yourself, not expecting the ... to offer you a paycheck.

except when you rely on accrued family wealth and nepotism.

[something_else]

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Liberty. It means that you need to be responsible for your own life and take care of yourself, not expecting the government to offer you a paycheck. When you're working, you're not a pariah because you contribute to the society you live in.

I mean yes, but what about people who legitimately get dealt a short hand? Or people who are born into absurdly wealthy families? Pure liberty does not account for these situations which if unaddressed do not result in a perfectly functioning society. Just look at the US where liberty like this is a top priority. It's a shit show.

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Freedom of speech. People have a need to speak freely. Enough said!

Should you be allowed to repeatedly threaten to break into a bank and murder 10 innocent people without action being taken against you? Probably not. So freedom of speech has to stop somewhere. Where that line is drawn requires nuance.

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Capitalism. You must allow people to build businesses and offer people jobs; it is the greatest way to solve problems. I love YouTube, Amazon, Tesla, etc.

Do you love Amazon forcing their employees to piss in bottles too? Because that's what unconstrained capitalism gets you.

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Democracy. We choose our leaders by voting.

And yet a man-child ended up the president of the country that champions democracy. Democracy has its flaws.

These are all good things, to a point. But just because we have created functioning societies based on these principles does not mean they are the only principles of creating a functional society. They can and will evolve. What I take from your post is that you believe mankind has mastered the art of creating functional societies and need not develop any further.

Edited August 24, 2021 by something_else

[Synnergy]

1 hour ago, something_else said:

And yet a man-child ended up the president of the country that champions democracy. Democracy has its flaws.

And yet a demented man ended up the president of the country that champions democracy. Democracy has its flaws.*

[Danioover9000]

@Danioover9000

22 hours ago, Danioover9000 said:

@Fearey

   Really? When someone has experienced growth, what happens?

   If you're into self help, and you do a pre mortem, what are you doing?

   What I'm referring to is not merely Conservativism as a political idea, but as a force of nature. For example, if you are into fitness, and try out a new exercise or do slightly more or lift heavier, you induce temporary increase in stress. Our body has to adapt to that stimulus, which means that you need some r/r for a bit before continuing again, until you adjust to that new workout and your body normalizes to that stress. That is conservation in action, specifically with rest also.

   You are being conservative when you plan out and figure out your financial situation. You don't  gamble all your savings away, that's not being conservative. You also manage your personal finance and investment portfolio, research good ownership assets, and invest in them like stocks, real estate and small business.

   You are being conservative when you're deciding on how you maintain that career path, or how you manage your workplace. You don't just quit or assault your colleagues when it gets a bit stressful.

   You are being conservative when you are relating to other people, socializing and dating. You don't just flirt with a random person that is too young or too old that it's inappropriate to. You don't appoach people, generally being social, when your gut tells you not to do so.

   You are being conservative when you plan out your healthy diet and lifestyle. You don't go straight to eating raw veggies, or air, or insects. You instead track your nutrition, clean up your diet by eliminating one beverage or food at a time, adjust, record on your food journal, and repeat for the long term. You slowly work up to a really well balanced diet, or a specific diet, which requires research and self experimenting, not rash and rapid changes. You also check if you are sleeping correctly, for 7-8 hours, and napping  around half to an hour in the day, proper r and r.

   You are being conservative when you are entertaining yourself with the same leisure and entertainment, but also when selecting a new leisure activity, or when resting. You keep in mind that your leisure time is important for releasing stress from work, or schooling, or dealing with a social conflict, so you are being conservative when you select how you get that stress release.

   You are being conservative when you do your house chores and look after your own property, the interior and exterior, if you have a garden, a backyard or a front yard you plan for those changes, research and weigh up potential costs for hiring specialists to work on parts of your property, or to do the repairs yourself. Also managing one's home environment is being conservative, similarly to feng shui.

   Conservativism is more than just a political ideology, but it's a force of nature, the yang of it. So don't make a shadow out of being conservative when the situation really needs you to become a conservative.

Edited August 25, 2021 by Danioover9000

[Stovo]

20 hours ago, Synnergy said:

I agree, @Danioover9000!

Moreover, what does it mean to be a conservative? That's an important question.

Conservativism stands for the building blocks of a functional society, which are liberty, freedom of speech, Capitalism, and Democracy. If you succeed in creating such a society, you want to protect it and preserve it. That's where borders come into place. Those who want to migrate to a civilized country must adopt those four principles. Diversity without assimilation leads to tribalism and chaos; history tells us that.

1. Liberty. It means that you need to be responsible for your own life and take care of yourself, not expecting the government to offer you a paycheck. When you're working, you're not a pariah because you contribute to the society you live in.

2. Freedom of speech. People have a need to speak freely. Enough said!

3. Capitalism. You must allow people to build businesses and offer people jobs; it is the greatest way to solve problems. I love YouTube, Amazon, Tesla, etc.

4. Democracy. We choose our leaders by voting.

That is true conservativism and there's nothing wrong with being a conservative.

Firstly, you are projecting your values onto others. In subjectivity, you can state an opinion that those 4 things are necessary for a civilised society, but objectively this is not so and you will never be able to prove it objectively.

Secondly, in western societies, people at higher stages tend to believe in those 4 things too. Liberals in the US usually believe in those 4 things. Conservatives think this is not true, because they are fear-based and tend to experience an ego backlash to liberal ideologies. 

[EternalForest]

@Flowerfaeiry You should be able to express your views 100% freely.

Imagine the most high consciousness society possible. Do you see any censorship going on? Of course not.

Censorship's wrong, no matter what.

Edited August 26, 2021 by EternalForest

[EternalForest]

On 8/22/2021 at 2:03 PM, Jennjenn said:

This is exactly the point I was going to make. Not everything is for everyone. Thinking that everyone needs to accommodate you it's entitlement mentality very common in privilege groups.

Not everything is for you and you're not for everything, and that’s ok. 

If having a desire for an honest and open environment for people of all perspectives to have a dialogue makes you entitled, I'm proud to be entitled.

[Synnergy]

21 hours ago, Stovo said:

Firstly, you are projecting your values onto others. In subjectivity, you can state an opinion that those 4 things are necessary for a civilised society, but objectively this is not so and you will never be able to prove it objectively.

 

Those values are objectively proven by reality. They work! USA, Canada, Europe, and Australia, all these countries are capitalistic. They work and innovate all the time.

When I get up in the morning, the lights are on and the highways running.

I go to a Starbucks and drink a delicious coffee; that moves me to tears.

I'm relatively free in a Western nation and I'm grateful for that.

You can't contradict reality and throw onto me all sorts of "nuances" that are useless in reality.

You're either a capitalist or you are not.

[Synnergy]

6 hours ago, EternalForest said:

@Flowerfaeiry You should be able to express your views 100% freely.

Imagine the most high consciousness society possible. Do you see any censorship going on? Of course not.

Censorship's wrong, no matter what.

@EternalForest, they have invested too much in @Leo Gura's teachings. And now they believe them to be objectively true.

Leo does a great job when it comes to consciousness work. Other than that, take him with a grain of salt and that's with all due respect to Leo.

You should be aware of Thomas Sowell's book: "How Intellectuals Ruin Society."

Human beings are complex creatures. We can not create a utopia on planet Earth.

We must allow what works in reality, not what sounds good in theory.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Synnergy

[Windappreciator]

@Synnergy

Stop spreading your shitty narrow understanding of people's intentions.

You contradict yourself sentence after sentence you slimy weasel.

Bullshit is written all over you.

[Stovo]

3 hours ago, Synnergy said:

Those values are objectively proven by reality. They work! USA, Canada, Europe, and Australia, all these countries are capitalistic. They work and innovate all the time.

When I get up in the morning, the lights are on and the highways running.

I go to a Starbucks and drink a delicious coffee; that moves me to tears.

I'm relatively free in a Western nation and I'm grateful for that.

You can't contradict reality and throw onto me all sorts of "nuances" that are useless in reality.

You're either a capitalist or you are not.

All those things are also true of China. Does China meet your 4 criteria? 

In-fact living in China is what destroyed my worldview that western values were universal values. That realisation caused an existential crisis. 

Your ego doesn't want an existential crisis, so you'll take the path of least resistance and assume what you're saying is objectively true, which of course it is not and cannot be so. 

Of course, we can argue in a subjective relative sense regarding what sort of society we believe is preferable, but there is no truth there. 

[roopepa]

Leo, along many of the forum members, understand the value of those things I see you mentioned here: democracy, capitalism, individual freedom, etc. For me the difference seems to be that you look at things from the perspective of these values, and Leo and others from a perspective above, from a wider context. This is why you feel threatened. On this forum, these values are not suppressed, as you experience it, but simply seen from a perspective above.

Democracy, capitalism and freedom of speech are not the core values of Actualized.org, this forum, nor the later stages of the spiral. But to say that Leo does not value these things is a great misunderstanding, as they literally make Leos life work possible.

[Leo Gura]

17 hours ago, EternalForest said:

Imagine the most high consciousness society possible. Do you see any censorship going on? Of course not.

If everyone was highly conscious no laws or police would be necessary. Laws and police exist precisely because 99% are not highly conscious.

When all you guys become infinitely conscious, then this forum will have zero censorship.

[Zedman]

I can see how egotistic society and those in power notice the rise of spirituality one day and start censoring it. Are we going to change our views on censorship then?

[Synnergy]

8 hours ago, Stovo said:

In-fact living in China is what destroyed my worldview that western values were universal values. That realisation caused an existential crisis. 

 

China is totally different than the Western world.

Start criticizing the government there and see what happens.

[JuliusCaesar]

12 hours ago, Synnergy said:

Those values are objectively proven by reality. They work! USA, Canada, Europe, and Australia, all these countries are capitalistic. They work and innovate all the time.

When I get up in the morning, the lights are on and the highways running.

I go to a Starbucks and drink a delicious coffee; that moves me to tears.

I'm relatively free in a Western nation and I'm grateful for that.

You can't contradict reality and throw onto me all sorts of "nuances" that are useless in reality.

You're either a capitalist or you are not.

And in the same countries we have Social Security without which there would be countless elderly individuals in the streets. In the same countries we have income tax, which is nothing more than redistribution of wealth, and yet without it there would be probably be chaos as essential branches of Government would be poorly financed if at all. Surely you don't want to live in a world without police or firemen or a military. A world in which many of the people around you would rob, rape, or even kill you should they feel it benefits them. What you're missing is that you've decided to judge your political "enemies". To accuse them of things of which they aren't even guilty. Like trying to destroy the western world with Marxism or Leninism. And yes, they make false accusations against you, and others with your values as well. I'm not denying any of that, all I'm saying is that if you spent more time trying to love and understand your rivals, you may find that they have fundamentally the same views and concerns you do. It's just that you've been fooled by the illusion of opposites. After all, it takes wisdom to see conservatism in liberalism and liberalism in conservatism.

[Preety_India]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If everyone was highly conscious no laws or police would be necessary. Laws and police exist precisely because 99% are not highly conscious.

When all you guys become infinitely conscious, then this forum will have zero censorship.

Truth of truths.