A video of a man supposedly demonstrating telekenesis

[undeather]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Lol

Stage orange skeptics are somestimes pretty helpful to uncover stage purple - blue trickery.

Most people who claim to possess psychic abilities are either frauds or simply delusional. 
The ego loves to have "special powers" and control over stuff. Of course thats the case and you know that. 

It doesnt mean the skeptics are right in any absolute way, nor did I ever imply that. 
 

[Animo]

13 hours ago, Farnaby said:

@Leo Gura ? you litteraly said you can't trust proof, but you trust what most scientists are saying about vaccines and Covid (which btw I do too and that's why I'm vaccinated). But your reasoning seems contradictory. 

If questioning that is thinking like a child I'm happy to think like one ?

Sorry @Animo for going off topic. I did that stuff in the videos as a teenager. Maybe telekinesis is possible, but these videos don't prove it. So many other explanations are more likely for what is happening in those videos than psychic abilities. 

@Farnaby That's okay lol. It's a fun discussion I caused. The videos I posted are laughable anyway, since I tried it for myself, and yeah, it's wind. It initially just tripped me out because of the delay between hand and foil movement.

[taotemu]

“People usually consider walking on water or in thin air a miracle. But I think the real miracle is not to walk either on water or in thin air, but to walk on earth. Every day we are engaged in a miracle which we don't even recognize: a blue sky, white clouds, green leaves, the black, curious eyes of a child—our own two eyes. All is a miracle.”
― Thich Nhat Hanh

This sums up my take on this kind of thing.  People keep looking for special powers or for some super natural phenomenon when simply living exactly the way we are is the real miracle that we have become blind to.  It is a miracle that your digestion works.  It is a miracle that your immune system knows how to identify and then wage war on invading bacteria and viruses.  It is a miracle that we can perceive color and hear sound.  It is a miracle we can experience love and connection.  It is a miracle we can make choices contrary to our conditioning.  Telekinesis has nothing on these things.

[Enlightenment]

Quote

All of the dowsers agreed with the conditions of the test and stated that they felt able to perform the test that day and that the water flow was sufficient. Before the test they were asked how sure they were that they would succeed. All said either "99 percent" or "100 percent" certain. They were asked what they would conclude if the water flow was 90 degrees from what they thought it was and all said that it was impossible. After the test they were asked how confident they were that they had passed the test. Three answered "100 percent" and one answered that he had not completed the test.

When all of the tests were over and the location of the pipes was revealed, none of the dowsers had passed the test

From The One Million Dollar Paranormal Challenge

[Animo]

5 hours ago, taotemu said:

People keep looking for special powers or for some super natural phenomenon when simply living exactly the way we are is the real miracle that we have become blind to.  It is a miracle that your digestion works.  It is a miracle that your immune system knows how to identify and then wage war on invading bacteria and viruses.  It is a miracle that we can perceive color and hear sound.  It is a miracle we can experience love and connection.  It is a miracle we can make choices contrary to our conditioning.

Sure, but I don't see that as a reason to stop exploring and investigating.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Animo

[Enlightenment]

17 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

here is a huge difference between trusting materialist science on viruses vs telekinesis.

Science is great for material matters. Understand its limits.

"Psychokinesis is an alleged psychic ability allowing a person to influence a physical system without physical interaction."

I don't see why physicalist science wouldn't be able to study the effect people claim it produces

[Blackhawk]

This thread is painful to read..

If you claim that you can magically move physical objects, then fucking show it. The end. Very simple.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Mafortu]

3 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

This thread is painful to read..

If you claim that you can magically move physical objects, then fucking show it. The end. Very simple.

Rationality is a commodity in the mystical communities.

Its hard but honest work for us skeptics to keep these stage greens from losing their marbles.

[Leo Gura]

24 minutes ago, Enlightenment said:

I don't see why physicalist science wouldn't be able to study the effect people claim it produces

Yes, that's exactly the problem. You don't see how science is a Social Matrix activity. You naively expect science to be open to truth, but it isn't.

Extraordinary evidence requires an extraordinarily open mind. Which scientists don't have.

[Carl-Richard]

32 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

If you claim that you can magically move physical objects, then fucking show it. The end. Very simple.

If you claim you can show your dick in public, then fucking show it .

Edited August 22, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Blackhawk]

15 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Yes, that's exactly the problem. You don't see how science is a Social Matrix activity. You naively expect science to be open to truth, but it isn't.

Extraordinary evidence requires an extraordinarily open mind. Which scientists don't have.

That doesn't apply in this case.

1. There are millions of scientists who would love to find out that magical powers exists.

2. It would be so ridiclously easy to prove in a way which would be impossible to explain away as something ordinary.

7 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

If you claim you can show your dick in public, then fucking show it 

And how is that a relevant comment? What does that have to do with anything about this subject?

[Carl-Richard]

5 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

And how is that a relevant comment? What does that have to do with anything about this subject?

The point is that it's not as simple as "just do the experiment". Besides the myriad of other reasons to keep quiet, there is a lot of stigma around these things. It's a little bit like psychedelics. If you think it takes just one person to turn the world on to the benefits of psychedelics, then that is very naive. It takes decades of people teaming up and working behind the scenes before you even see a modicum of public sway in favor of the topic. There are many challenges to overcome. For example, research on psychedelics was illegal for the better part of the 20th century, and that didn't just change in a heartbeat.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Blackhawk]

10 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

The point is that it's not as simple as "just do the experiment". Besides the myriad of other reasons to keep quiet, there is a lot of stigma around these things. It's a little bit like psychedelics. If you think it takes just one person to turn the world on to the benefits of psychedelics, then that is very naive. It takes decades of people teaming up and working behind the scenes before you even see a modicum of public sway in favor of the topic. Research on psychedelics was illegal for the better part of the 20th century. That didn't just change in a heartbeat.

I'm not buying that at all.

That's just a convenient way to keep your wishful thinking belief alive. It's like when the alien believers say: "We don't see the best videos of aliens because the government keeps those amazing videos in a secret super vault somewhere."

Or "We can't see the aliens because they have amazing invisibility technology". Etc.

There's many convenient things you can believe in to keep the fantasy alive.

And I'm not even mentioning the stuff which conspiracy theorists believe in..

And of course the same mechanism also works in beliefs about nonduality stuff etc.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Windappreciator]

@Blackhawk

8 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

I'm not buying that at all.

Why not, my friend?

[Carl-Richard]

21 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

I'm not buying that at all.

These are the weakest arguments though. I think the strongest argument for why you don't see psychic powers becoming mainstream is that being proficient at it is directly antithetical to pursuing egoic, low-consciousness survival needs.

Siddhis are byproducts of working towards The Absolute. The Absolute is not anthropocentrically hyper-utilitarian like Stage Orange science is. The Absolute works for the integrity of the whole, and from that perspective, humans are at the same level as bacterias, cancer cells or viruses.

It's not necessarily that you become less concerned about human problems, but it's rather that your psychic powers are not serving those problems. That is for example why the firemaking Chi guy from the other thread was visited by his master in his sleep when he started showing off, and it's also why subtle psychic phenomena that are more accessible to everyday people are not under "their control" per se (it happens "to them").

Edited August 22, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Mafortu]

1 hour ago, Blackhawk said:

I'm not buying that at all.

That's just a convenient way to keep your wishful thinking belief alive. It's like when the alien believers say: "We don't see the best videos of aliens because the government keeps those amazing videos in a secret super vault somewhere."

Or "We can't see the aliens because they have amazing invisibility technology". Etc.

There's many convenient things you can believe in to keep the fantasy alive.

And I'm not even mentioning the stuff which conspiracy theorists believe in..

And of course the same mechanism also works in beliefs about nonduality stuff etc.

Astronomers, government officials, high ranking military officers, aircraft pilots, nasa astronauts

They have all seen UFOs, these are people with credibility and expertise in their fields.

The same cant be said about psychic powers, so there's that.

[Blackhawk]

5 minutes ago, Mafortu said:

Astronomers, government officials, high ranking military officers, aircraft pilots, nasa astronauts

They have all seen UFOs, these are people with credibility and expertise in their fields.

The same cant be said about psychic powers, so there's that.

Unidentified Flying Objects, or more accurately UAP's, Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, yes. That doesn't mean that they are aliens. It means that you don't know what they are. And there's also the possibility that they are lying about seeing anything at all.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Mafortu]

1 minute ago, Blackhawk said:

Unidentified Flying Objects, or more accurately UAP's, Unidentified Aerial Phenomena, yes. That doesn't mean that they are aliens. It means that you don't know what they are. And there's also the possibility that they are lying about seeing anything at all 

Well you have two choices: They are manmade, or they are not manmade. Which one do you think all those experts and pilots say it is?

Also, to say all those credible people lied then you might as well claim the holocaust didn't happen.

[Blackhawk]

5 minutes ago, Mafortu said:

Well you have two choices: They are manmade, or they are not manmade. Which one do you think all those experts and pilots say it is?

Also, to say all those credible people lied then you might as well claim the holocaust didn't happen.

It's not true that there's many credible people. The most credible ones are just fighter jet pilots: David Fravor and Alex Dietrich. It's possible that they are lying.

And no there's not only two choices (manmade or not manmade). They could also be whatever else. Optical illusions, hallucinations, weather phenomena, etc.

But this is off topic..

Edited August 22, 2021 by Blackhawk

[SriSriJustinBieber]

If we are to be skeptic to the bone, before speaking of siddhis, and before studying the laws of physics etc, let's first prove there is a world apart from consciousness.