Stop saying good job

[PepperBlossoms]

Wow.  So my therapist introduced the idea to me that telling someone good job or bad job is more hurtful than helpful (even though many of us have found it a common automatic response).  It takes away from intrinsic motivation.

Examples from my therapist:

It is better to tell a child - "I see that you worked for 2 minutes.  What would it look like if you worked for 10 more?"  Instead of saying that they are lazy.

It is better to tell a child - "Wow.  Why did you select purple?" or "Wow.  Where did you get the idea for that?" instead of saying good job.

I found an article on it here:

https://www.alfiekohn.org/article/five-reasons-stop-saying-good-job/

The same could relate to how you talk to yourself and instead of telling yourself that something is good/bad/whatever - comment on the effort/situation and see how it could be elaborated/changed.

She emphasized to comment on effort (she said that this also had to do with talking to children but I feel like it could also refer to adults as well).

It's better to say nothing or make a comment than it is to say good job or provide a compliment.

Edited August 17, 2021 by PepperBlossoms

[Moksha]

I agree with her.

The ego requires judgment in order to exist. It doesn't care if it is better than something, or worse than something, as long as it feels special. Superiority or inferiority equally empower it. The end of the ego is the Sub Ek realization that it is all the same, seamless Consciousness. The ego cannot stand equanimity.

[hyruga]

Nah your therapist is wrong. 

Good job is neutral and you can say it as many times as you want. 

But don't say 'you are so smart/you are a genius'.

Instead say 'you have worked so hard', 'you have put in the effort'.

[Shawn Philips]

dont overlook the issue, saying good joob is giving positive feedback and approval, there's nothing negative in that unless the kid become a approval seeker.

[PepperBlossoms]

@Moksha Since we are all one, we are all no better than anything else.

@hyruga To say good job also implies that there can be a bad job.  It creates a duality.  (According to my therapist).  Good implies opposite of bad.

[hyruga]

7 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

 

@hyruga To say good job also implies that there can be a bad job.  It creates a duality.  (According to my therapist).  Good implies opposite of bad.

haha tell your therapist to stop this duality reasoning.

Why don't you tell your mother or boyfriend to stop saying 'I love you'? Because love implies opposite of fear or hate.

The truth is you say it when you want to say it. Stop creating so many rules on what to say and what not to say.

 

[Moksha]

9 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

Since we are all one, we are all no better than anything else.

⚡

[Preety_India]

@Moksha hey Jim, your website is awesome. 

 

[PepperBlossoms]

Here is my question.

Do we have to play the positive game to survive?

I am seeing how much conversation involves - oh that is so great, and oh what a friend, and oh that chaos - everything is being given a positive and negative connotation - in the absolute sense there is no positive or negative.

But do we have to play the positive game for the relative human survival?  We are positive to attract a mate for attention, sex, companion, help, whatever - the neutral may not be enough so we have to be "positive"?

When we want to be authentic and say nothing matters and everything is neutral - well we start feeling pain if we stop eating and that is painful so we go back to "positive" to counteract that pain and eat food.

[hyruga]

On 8/18/2021 at 9:45 AM, PepperBlossoms said:

Here is my question.

Do we have to play the positive game to survive?

 

No. You don't have to play the positive game to survive (Though a totally depressed person may kill himself.)

If you want to do better in life, you still have to be more positive. Being positive and cheerful is always a better strategy than being negative or neutral.  (Doh! Saying the obvious.)

 

Edited August 19, 2021 by hyruga

[Moksha]

On 8/17/2021 at 7:38 PM, Preety_India said:

@Moksha hey Jim, your website is awesome. 

Thank you @Preety_India, just launched it on Monday  If you have any suggestions on improvements, I appreciate it.

[Preety_India]

23 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Thank you @Preety_India, just launched it on Monday  If you have any suggestions on improvements, I appreciate it.

I'll take a tour some day this week and surely let you know. Btw cheers on your effort. Very well done. 

[Flowerfaeiry]

There's no hard rules on the matter. It can be really powerful to be recognized for the job you did especially if it comes from a genuine place and from someone you respect. 

[Michael569]

On 18/08/2021 at 0:04 AM, PepperBlossoms said:

It is better to tell a child - "Wow.  Why did you select purple?" or "Wow.  Where did you get the idea for that?" instead of saying good job.

Yes this is excellent point. Never ask the client question starting with "why" that is aimed at questioning an existing behaviour. People absolutely hate that. Open questions exploring alternatives and engaging deeper sites of the prefrontal cortex are better option such as "what other colours do you think would work as well?"

On 18/08/2021 at 0:04 AM, PepperBlossoms said:

It's better to say nothing or make a comment than it is to say good job or provide a compliment.

Reminds me of a book I once read, the guy was talking about how in school at PE sessions are kids are evaluated equally. Such as the usual time for 1K is say 9 minutes and so anyone who makes it at 10 or worse is downgraded. What they don't appreciate is that while Student X made it in 7.5 being an athlete it was easy however Student Y being from a non-sporty family made it in 11 while firing on all cylinders and ending up exhausted for 24 hours.. This would have never been appreciated. It is the amount of individual effort and willpower that was spent that needs to be counted not some pedestal hall of fame target. For some people those targets may be completely unechievable 

 

[Moksha]

10 hours ago, Preety_India said:

I'll take a tour some day this week and surely let you know. Btw cheers on your effort. Very well done. 

Much appreciated, and thanks for your kind words ?

@PepperBlossoms There is a classic line of research in psychology on just this issue. More recently, pyschologists are looking at how extrinsic factors can positively interact with internal motivation. For example, you might find this this article interesting.

Nice to see science validating what the sages have known for millenia. Great passage from the Bhagavad Gita:

You have the right to work, but never to the fruit of work. You should never engage in action for the sake of reward, nor should you long for inaction…Seek refuge in the attitude of detachment and you will amass the wealth of spiritual awareness. Those who are motivated only by desire for the fruits of action are miserable, for they are constantly anxious about the results of what they do.

Internal inquiry reveals that you are already infinitely abundant as Consciousness itself. When actions arise out of presence, they are pure from any results they may produce. Ironically, such actions often lead to the most desirable outcomes in the world of form.

[Nos7algiK]

"When people see some things as beautiful,
other things become ugly.
When people see some things as good,
other things become bad.

Being and non-being create each other.
Difficult and easy support each other.
Long and short define each other.
High and low depend on each other.
Before and after follow each other.

Therefore the Master
acts without doing anything
and teaches without saying anything.
Things arise and she lets them come;
things disappear and she lets them go.
She has but doesn't possess,
acts but doesn't expect.
When her work is done, she forgets it.
That is why it lasts forever."

~Tao Te Ching - Chapter 2

"The Master, by residing in the Tao,
sets an example for all beings.
Because he doesn't display himself,
people can see his light.
Because he has nothing to prove,
people can trust his words.
Because he doesn't know who he is,
people recognize themselves in him.
Because he has no goal in mind,
everything he does succeeds."

~Tao Te Ching - Chapter 22

Edited August 19, 2021 by Nos7algiK

[PepperBlossoms]

Taking action without caring about the results - complete detachment from what imagination could become or could be gained

Ah that is so mature and I am so immature - but yet anything gained is for all and self is temporary so yes results are not kept forever by relative self but gained for all - which relative self can appreciate that its other selves (which is also itself) can bask in

How does one plan for the future if the results are not considered?  Is there no future plan?  What about wanting to evolve to have change move in a specific direction?  But yeah what direction would that be?  How would one float about directionless??

[Moksha]

31 minutes ago, PepperBlossoms said:

How does one plan for the future if the results are not considered?  Is there no future plan?  What about wanting to evolve to have change move in a specific direction?  But yeah what direction would that be?  How would one float about directionless??

Awakening is the realization that ultimately there is no "one" planning, and no "future" to be realized. You, the human being, are only relatively real. Not unimportant, and still worthy of celebration, but profoundly less significant than your ultimate nature.

Good news is that ultimate and relative reality intersect. Even within the dream, you can wake up to your true nature, and move in a productive direction. Trapped by the conditioned mind, life is a desperate game of survival. Freed, life becomes a sandbox of discovery, fueled by the infinite creativity of Consciousness.

The beauty of not being bound by the results of your actions is that you channel Consciousness itself. There is no ulterior motive, beyond the joy of the action. Ironically, letting go of the ulterior motive, often leads to greater profitability. Just don't make that a prerequisite to letting go, otherwise is it really letting go?