Gender roles

[Windappreciator]

@Karmadhi

Oh, I see.

Men and women have male and female sides. Traditional roles were abandoned because they didn't provide what people feel inwards anymore. That doesn't mean that the next step will offer less challenges but it also means that the step backwards will never fullfil.

Edited August 19, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Karmadhi]

@Windappreciator This is biological not cultural. Unless you evolve biologically then you are stuck being this way. It would be nice if people could evolve out of being naturally inclinced to like sugar salt and fat but here we are.

[snowyowl]

2 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

I mean that a submissive female is her natural role, a marriage works when both parties are at their best self. Strong man and submissive woman, it is basic biology.

Natural just means being true to your nature, whatever that happens to be. And perhaps this is relative to the development of the society you're trying to belong to. Your picture seems truer in a less technological economy, but now we have a more complex picture where leadership roles require more interpersonal soft skills traditionally associated with the feminine, not just the dominating alpha male skillset. 

But I don't think the higher divorce rate is a sign of failure, rather it's a sign that the more liberal societies (I don't like the western vs eastern split) are evolving and experimenting with a new paradigm where women's potential and contributions to society are more fully realised. It's hard for some couples to adjust for instance when the woman becomes the breadwinner, but these are the birth pangs of something new.

[Karmadhi]

@snowyowl You can be successful and still be feminine and submissive in the household. Strong and independent outside, girly sweet and submissive in home. Integrate both.

Same for guys. 

[Windappreciator]

@Karmadhi if it were biological it wouldn't have happened. 

Even if it were biological it can still happen. Who says the west did not biologically develop out of it?

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Karmadhi]

@Windappreciator If the "west" had develop out of biological evolution then they would not be 40 percent overweight because they are addicted to salt, fat and sugar. 

[Windappreciator]

@Karmadhi I gave you enough reasoning out of this mindset. You're basically telling me you're the moderators problem now.

 

[Karmadhi]

@Windappreciator Sorry, i did not mean to be rude.

 

[Emerald]

7 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Emerald No i do not mean that. I mean that a submissive female is her natural role, a marriage works when both parties are at their best self. Strong man and submissive woman, it is basic biology. From a higher TRUTH perspective then this is all BS but in the relative survival driven world where marriages operate then such behaviour ensures longevity.  Basically females want to be feminine and submissive, if they start acting all alpha it will make them miserable and resentful even if they are not aware of it. Sounds sexist but this is how things see to be.

And marriages in these more traditional societies not only last longer, they are generally better. Rarely any issues, and both are happy doing their thing. Of course they can split housework and stuff, doesnt have to be a male dictatorship but the gender roles allow it to last longer.

Plenty of cases where in a marriage in the west the man has become the woman and the marriage is miserable. As soon as the man gets some coaching and becomes more masculine and assumes his natural role as the leader , the whole marriage gets better.

Read "The way of the superior man", he explains this in detail.

 

I rather enjoy taking on the receptive role in a relationship. I love being able to soften and let go. And it makes me feel good when a man takes the lead sometimes.

But I also have a strong masculine side, which also feels good to me where I like to have my own autonomy and goals and desires separate from my relationship. 

So submitting my will to a man in a relationship is the opposite of enjoyable (except sometimes in kinkier sexual scenarios).

There’s honestly a chasm of difference between submission and surrender. If you were a woman you’d know the difference.

But honestly, how could you possibly know that relationships were better in the past? They honestly sound horrible.

My view is that healthy relationship is something that the human beings are evolving into understanding and embodying. It’s almost certainly not going to be found in the past… only in the future. 

[Vzdoh]

Ok. Some perspective here. 

I have achieved a lot in my life. I am completely independent financially and have a good career and earn quite a bit. Probably higher than 60-80% of men. Do I use this achievement to be more bitchy and become a leader in a relationship? NO. 

I want a guy who I can surrender to. Who is strong and a leader and has my respect above all. Preferably he needs to be more financially capable than me too, to truly earn my respect. 

I am happy the most in a relationship where the man assumes a role of a leader and I follow, but it doesn't mean I would allow him to destroy my boundaries or I will be a slave to all his desires and wants. It also does not mean I will allow him to be a dictator in a relationship. That wouldn't work for me. It's respect from both sides. I respect him for being strong, assertive, protective and successful. And he respects me for being my own woman, gentle, supportive, caring, and submissive to him. Submission/surrender is a choice I am making, not something I absolutely must do. When it is a choice, not something forced onto me, I feel happy because my feminine energy is satisfied and as per Teal Swan, I feel like a pearl in a masculine shell - protected, cared for, even celebrated ❤️?

[AriSujan]

@KennedyCarter You enlightened???

[Etherial Cat]

15 hours ago, Karmadhi said:

@Emerald No i do not mean that. I mean that a submissive female is her natural role, a marriage works when both parties are at their best self. Strong man and submissive woman, it is basic biology. From a higher TRUTH perspective then this is all BS but in the relative survival driven world where marriages operate then such behaviour ensures longevity.  Basically females want to be feminine and submissive, if they start acting all alpha it will make them miserable and resentful even if they are not aware of it. Sounds sexist but this is how things see to be.

And marriages in these more traditional societies not only last longer, they are generally better. Rarely any issues, and both are happy doing their thing. Of course they can split housework and stuff, doesnt have to be a male dictatorship but the gender roles allow it to last longer.

Plenty of cases where in a marriage in the west the man has become the woman and the marriage is miserable. As soon as the man gets some coaching and becomes more masculine and assumes his natural role as the leader , the whole marriage gets better.

Read "The way of the superior man", he explains this in detail.

 

It is pretty much a prevalent masculine fantasy to think that a woman is supposed to be submissive.

Submission can't make a healthy relationship... Because by structure it requires asking of this person to relinquish on its own will, needs and dreams, in order to comply to someone else's leadership and aspiration. And what happens is that the person who is submitting is repressing its individuality and live a miserable life. Depression, resentment, anger, envy and all other type of mental disease ensure. And the submissive person will eventually need to reclaim its sovereignty to heal itself.

It is not correct to assume that females do want to be submissive. I personally dont and find worrisome that so many men believe still that submission is what femininity is about, if anything. It makes me cringe a bit. 

As Emerald said, femininity is about receptivity and surrender, which both are qualities that are derived by acceptance and choice. Which doesn't equate it to being submissive at all . By definition, the power of receptivity and surrender are a big deal because it knows what it wants and what is doesn't want. And submission, on the other hand, is stealing that power from the feminine by choosing on its behalf.

But I don't mind following a man's leadership and let him take control of what he wishes for as long as his vision goes in the same direction as mine and it doesn't contradict my authenticity and my boundaries. In fact, I'm super happy if he can make this happen while I care and take leadership for the other stuff that I want.

Regarding marriage in the west vs in other part of the world... From my experience, stage Blue marriage are absolutely horrible and potentially terribly dysfunctional. I have a very good friend who is Morrocan and hermother is a psychological train wreck (as well as all the other female relative she ever mentioned) because of the level of abnegation she had to go through.

Today's societies are still terribly wired towards the masculine principle and it is the reason why so many women are struggling with taking leadership or making a living. In the future, if we manage to cross a point where the feminine is as valued, it is probable that females will truly manage to thrive and enjoy taking ownership for their project without turning as dry as we feel right now in -lets say - a competitive, corporate environnement.

Edited August 20, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Karmadhi]

@Etherial Cat

On 8/20/2021 at 1:13 PM, Etherial Cat said:

As Emerald said, femininity is about receptivity and surrender, which both are qualities that are derived by acceptance and choice.

Ok, i stand corrected. I use them a bit interchangibly. Change submissive with receptivity and surrender.

On 8/20/2021 at 1:13 PM, Etherial Cat said:

Regarding marriage in the west vs in other part of the world... From my experience, stage Blue marriage are absolutely horrible and potentially terribly dysfunctional. I have a very good friend who is Morrocan and hermother is a psychological train wreck (as well as all the other female relative she ever mentioned) because of the level of abnegation she had to go through.

In my home blue country they seem much healthier than western marriages, maybe middle east is different since my country is from eastern europe. I do not know tbh, i just used my personal experience.

On 8/20/2021 at 1:13 PM, Etherial Cat said:

Today's societies are still terribly wired towards the masculine principle

Agreed, just tell a female that females are more intuitive and emotional while guys are more logical and pragmatic. They will be offended and say something like : "so you are saying i am less intelligent"? A huge bias we have towards logical while ignoring things like intuition. Sad imo. There is 0 reason why logic is superior to intuition or emotional intelligence yet most people including females believe it so. This is mostly a stage orange issue in general imo than a gender issue, it will be corrected as society moves towards green.

On 8/20/2021 at 1:13 PM, Etherial Cat said:

it is probable that females will truly manage to thrive and enjoy taking ownership for their project without turning as dry as we feel right now in -lets say - a competitive, corporate environnement.

I feel like in corporate environements there are plenty of female workers. Keep in mind females also make kids and tend to be more involved in raising them so they cannot do an insane 80 hour workweek like top managers do in most firms, not because they will not be chosen but simply because they do not want to. Marriage age for females has already increased a lot in the west mostly because females have become more career driven. So i think this stuff is moving towards the direction you desire. However if you have a female that is absent from home 24/7 because she works all day it will hurt the child more than if the husband does it. Might be sexist for some but i really believe a child needs a mother more than a father especially on the first years of his life.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Karmadhi