Interesting Take on the Incel Phenomenon

[Emerald]

5 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Which I don't. I'm naturally hardwired to not be social. Not everyone are social, nor can become social. Or are even likable.

"Just get a social circle. Easy peasy."

Facepalm.

I said before to someone on here that the solution isn't easy... but it is simple.

It won't be easy to develop a habit of socialization. There will be many comfort zones you'll have to leave to do so.

But it is simple in the sense that the answer to your problem IS socialization. There is no other way to deal with your desire for a woman than to go out and be social enough to meet some. 

Socialization is your answer. Period.

Now, are you willing to go and do that?

Or do you prefer to just wallow in your victim narrative and the bad feelings and self-deprecating stories as your life passes you by?

And I'm going to assume that it's the former... given that this is a personal development forum.

[Emerald]

7 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Very rarely do you hear women say this though. It's mostly 'you're doing this wrong, you can't even do this much', etc. Why is that?

I rarely tell guys that I like them (unless I'm 95%+ positive he's interested in me) because I fear rejection. 

It's genuinely scary from the female perspective to be rejected because women tend to develop very strong bonds and feelings with a guy they like prior to the start of any relationship. And rejection is difficult when you're already invested and have had a crush on a guy for a while.

[Parththakkar12]

3 minutes ago, Emerald said:

I rarely tell guys that I like them (unless I'm 95%+ positive he's interested in me) because I fear rejection. 

It's genuinely scary from the female perspective to be rejected because women tend to develop very strong bonds and feelings with a guy they like prior to the start of any relationship. And rejection is difficult when you're already invested and have had a crush on a guy for a while.

Do you have any idea how confusing this is from male perspective?

This should not be this confusing. Women make it way more complicated than it should be.

[Emerald]

3 minutes ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Do you have any idea how confusing this is from male perspective?

This should not be this confusing. Women make it way more complicated than it should be.

But you see, women don't get any guarantee that the guy will be interested back.

And the connection usually runs deeper when a woman communicates her feelings as she's already developed the feelings deeply... if she's at a confession point. 

So, it isn't the same thing as doing cold approach and asking for a date.

There are really high stakes there, because if the guy doesn't like you, you can't just get another one of him.

And it takes a while to develop feelings for someone else. 

So, I won't usually tell my feelings until I know for sure. Or I'll communicate my feelings through flirting. And I'm quite sure that this is how most women operate.

It's quite natural for women to keep their feelings about a guy to themselves... especially because they don't want to be perceived as obsessive or clingy. 

[Parththakkar12]

@Emerald Kay, I get it now. Thanks!

[Blackhawk]

1 hour ago, Knowledge Hoarder said:

supermodels

 

46 minutes ago, Emerald said:

supermodels

Supermodels aren't especially attractive. This thing about supermodels is weird. It takes me 2 seconds to see a much more attractive woman on the street or at work.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Jacob Morres]

45 minutes ago, Emerald said:

Socialization is your answer. Period.

 

Well actually ultimately the best answer comes from within...

and sometimes solutions are counter-intuitive so it could literally be the opposite 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Etherial Cat]

10 hours ago, Emerald said:

Haha! I love that picture of Jordan Peterson.

I think it comes down to the traumas associated with anti-feminine indoctrination.

This has gotten better with the widespread acceptance of the LGBTQ community, because lots of people are more accepting of men and women who deviate from gender norms. And this benefits society a lot because it takes the pressure off of everyone (including straight, cisgendered folk) to conform to narrow gender roles.

But having grown up in a small redneck town in Florida where gender roles were still firm in the 90s, there was a real sense of femininity being a sign of weakness for males and females alike. That's why I became very misogynistic at a young age and very resistant to anything traditionally feminine.

But it was especially egregious to be feminine for boys/men. It would guarantee that you'd be bullied and branded as gay... of which homophobia was just the norm then. I was even quite homophobic at the time just because it seen as just the way things are. It wasn't until I was about 13 and had bi and gay friends that I realized that I was being a jerk.

So, there is a pretty rough patriarchal hierarchy that a great many boys/men have been indoctrinated with and learned. And everything about that hierarchy creates a constant anxiety about where each man falls in relation to other men in terms of adherence to the religion of masculinity. And level of masculinity is one of the main things that's scrutinized within this hierarchy. Also, as an extension of that, success with women is scrutinized within that hierarchy.

If fact, I'd say that most men who are really focused towards have a lot of sex with a lot of women are really coming from a concern for where they fall in the masculinity hierarchy... and not as much with the potential for pleasure within the sexual experiences with those women. The concern is more one of status than one of pleasure.

So given that there are tons of social expectations and social traumas that come as a result of deviating from those expectations, it makes sense that men are really caught up in that patriarchal hierarchy, even as it chews up their self-esteem. 

There's also a lot of meaning there that must be unlearned.

If you imagine someone who has been told that the meaning of their life is to earn a lot of money. And that person creates their identity in relation to that understanding of "the meaning of life is to earn money." And then, it's like money is abolished. And for better or for worse, that person has that identity broken down because the thing they were basing their identity off of no longer exists.

It would be the same thing to let go of patriarchal hierarchical understanding. There's so much experience and meaning and identity shaping going on there. It would be a real death to let go of. Like a compete upending of the worldview... which is hard for anyone.

And I would guess that this understanding of society wasn't something that just so happened to fall into place.

I think it's very useful for elite men (and elite people in general) to keep non-elite men playing this losing game. That way, these men keep directing their anger and aggression downward towards other non-elite men and women... as opposed to getting together and directing all that masculine aggression upwards towards the powers that be.

If you can keep men playing this game, it's a way of diffusing and sublimating their revolutionary power-disrupting energy towards even more marginalized people... and thus enforcing the power structures that be. 

It's the oldest trick of the powers that be. Get the men to use their privilege and power to further subjugate women so that they don't band together and disrupt the powers that be... and further enforce the subjugation of the powers that be by subjugating women. Get the white people to use their privilege and power to further subjugate non-white people so that the white people don't band together and disrupt the powers that be... and further enforce the subjugation of the powers that be by subjugating non-white people. 

None of it is on accident. When you create a hierarchy, you can keep the people always looking to level up while stepping on the people below them. And this is how those at the very top keep their power. And the rest of the hierarchy polices and subjugates itself. 

I know you're a bit torn about the idea of making political videos, but the world would very much benefits from analysis as such, especially put into the context of the rest of the content one can find on your channel.

 

As per that post especially, I'd love to rebound on so many aspects, but I'm all groggy and feverish from my 2nd Pfizer shot. 

But i'll just say that: it seems obvious that the current power structures are held by toxic masculinity. Philosophically, politically, economically.... Which is why the structure is such in need for leaders able to federate the troops through narrative building and by exemple.

I think you've nailed it when you said that men are afraid of being culled by falling at the bottom of the masculine hierarchy. And if not literally culled, the bottom of a toxic masculine structure is literally an experience so traumatic it's worth fighting away like a cat afraid of the water. Men are competing against each other not to have this experience. Maybe men are searching for safety from the brutality of toxic masculinity itself. And reaching the top is their definition of safety and the only way to taste hedonism. In this context, having sex with multiple women, eating barbecued meat, having the approval of other men, etc are token of reassurance on top of having elements of pleasure.

Seen like that, it seems clear that the best way to kick the misaligned social structure where it hurts is by teaching men and female on how to reintegrate their femininity. Maybe managing to implement classes of loving kindness meditation in school and diffusing feminine "self help" tools could be more subversive and dangerous to the society we live in that any political leader ever was. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Etherial Cat

[Gesundheit2]

No. Absolutely not.
Being social is like the natural state of humans, because it's necessary for survival. It rather takes work to be able to detach from the crowd and go it alone.
People who struggle socially do not struggle by choice. Anyone would choose a successful social life over a miserable one if given the choice without a second thought. Not necessarily a rich social life, but most definitely a successful one.

Now, to my story...
I come from a rather large family; 8 uncles and 2 aunts from my father's side, and only 2 aunts from my mother's side. So that's a 2 to 1 male to female ancestors ratio.
I grew up in the same building as 5 of my uncles and their families. And they all have boys (some older, and most younger), except one uncle who only has girls. And on top of that, I used to play in the streets with lots of other kids.
I was social, good-looking, masculine, and always the top student in elementary school. But with no luck with girls, at all. Zero. The charismatic kid always won, regardless of everything else.

I went to an all-male school for secondary school. It was one of my favorite times. All males, total freedom lol.

Then, in high school and first few years of college, I was a super nerdy kind of guy. I avoided girls in general and used Islamic beliefs and other ideologies that I used to have to justify that behavior. A GF was something that I always wanted but couldn't get and couldn't even be honest with myself about, because I used to have a big ego and a lot of self-image issues, let alone my huge lack of emotional intelligence back then. Then, I started learning about the social cues, and through a lot of trial and error, my results started getting better. But that's only because I was successful at high-school and the first few years of college, and because I was good-looking, because I would successfully attract the girl at first but then she would quickly lose the attraction. I could not maintain a relationship for longer than a couple of weeks. I was insecure and always lacked charisma. I could tell that many girls had crushes on me when I first got into high school and college. Unfortunately, I didn't know how to take advantage of my looks and that reoccurring scenario. At one point, I was approached by a girl; she was obsessed with me for more than a year, and I had a crush on her, she was a friend of a friend of mine; my friend arranged a date with her for me, but I was super anxious and shy around girls I fucked up rather quickly.

The rest of my story up until now is the usual grind, and trial and error you hear about from PUAs, even though I wasn't particularly doing pickup, just going about life while working on my inner game. That process took a lot of my mental resources that I now suck in college. So I can see how that's not an option for everyone.

Now, I ,as a person, am a lot more charismatic and capable of attraction (on cue); I got my first GF last year or so. Yay! But not so much. She was my last GF, too. We had such a deep connection, but in the end she also left me because I didn't know how to maintain attraction. Learned my lesson. And now I know better.

Right now, and after all the work and struggling, reality comes kicking me in the ass, because I am super poor (not my fault, though). I may be able to attract a girl, but I could not have a relationship with her. I don't think it's fair for the girl to be with me currently (don't worry, my self-esteem is intact), therefore I try to make it clear that I'm just fooling around, but not really, because then I would probably have zero success. It's a tricky situation, but usually they find out very quickly and move on. They're not that many, anyway. Just enough for me to get by.

Moral of the story: Not everyone is suited for social life, even though everyone wants to be so, and that's rather for understandable reasons. And of course, the charismatic boy always wins.

[Danioover9000]

@Jacob Morres

On 15/08/2021 at 1:02 AM, Jacob Morres said:

Well actually ultimately the best answer comes from within...

and sometimes solutions are counter-intuitive so it could literally be the opposite 

   Very true, counter intuitive. The best way to socialize is to talk to yourself a lot. Imagine a person, and talk. Developing feelings while talking in the mind, use all other senses. And do a side of self injury, or contemplation or meditation. Do so much internally that when time comes to talk to other people, it is easy, so easy cuz they are you.

[Jacob Morres]

@Danioover9000

well what i meant by that was like advice has a trap if it doesn't consider the wisdom that lives in the person. in most cases the person has knowledge and intuition about what is best for them

Edited August 16, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[Danioover9000]

@Jacob Morres

On 8/16/2021 at 9:26 PM, Jacob Morres said:

@Danioover9000

well what i meant by that was like advice has a trap if it doesn't consider the wisdom that lives in the person. in most cases the person has knowledge and intuition about what is best for them

   Ok, that's good you clarified. I was agreeing with your post, on the part about counter intuitive. I talked to quite a lot of people in the past, but it wasn't that effective. After I did a bit of self retrospection, and imagining myself go through many more social situations, it started to do quite well for me.

   And that practice did really well for me, but I can't say the same for other people as well. This also makes it more counter intuitive as well. 

[RendHeaven]

On 8/14/2021 at 4:11 PM, Blackhawk said:

I literally can't meet 5 women and 5 men in a week.

lmao wtf