SIBO Protocol - What to follow for combined hydrogen/methane?

[mememe]

29 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

Antibiotics + starving out is the best chance of success.

what if some bacteria really encapsulate like little egos in your guts and start replicating the moment they get feeded again - what if starving them out is practically impossible? there are antibiotics which tackle exactly on replication, so maybe it depends on the strain. you also need to know how your antibiotics work.

its about bacterial selfishness, i don’t want to humanize them - survival is a basic principle. humanification a human principle.

Edited August 17, 2021 by mememe

[Preety_India]

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

Antibiotics + starving out is the best chance of success.

How is your health now? Is your sibo healed at least partially? 

 

[Vision]

@Leo Gura

Have you ever taking probiotics+prebiotics in a SIBO protocol? That’s what my naturopath put me on. MegaSporeBiotic.

 

Edited August 20, 2021 by Vision

[Ora]

Megaspore is good. Normally you take the version more targeted towards sibo, restorflora, also by same company microbiome labs. Megaspore is like more of a daily maintenance rather than heavy hitter.

[Leo Gura]

41 minutes ago, Vision said:

@Leo Gura

Have you ever taking probiotics+prebiotics in a SIBO protocol? That’s what my naturopath put me on. MegaSporeBiotic.

You shouldn't take that until you kill off the bad bacteria.

Preboitics will just feed the SIBO and make it worse.

[Mada_]

What are some good resources for SIBO?

[Ora]

healthy gut healthy you book

[Vision]

@Ora

That's the book I'm currently reading actually. On Chapter 7 right now. 

What other resources would you recommend?

[Ora]

Everyone has their own "protocol," but out of all the ones I've found I like that the best. It's got steps, and rationales for them, all thats left is to follow it for the correct duration of time. I used to try this and try that for a month and didn't have much relief, then I just stuck to one protocol that's good and got relief.

His supps are nicely organized into steps and is convenient to just get and use, but I resourced my own from other sites for a bit cheaper, though the ingredients are mostly the same.

I used https://www.maybeitsmercury.com/supplements for fc cidal and dysbiocide as the main killing herbs. Combined with oregano oil, and allicin (only in the beginning since it's expensive) and restore flora from microbiome labs. Then I'd switch to apex energetics gi synergy from Dr Alex Reinhart website for my 2nd killing herb formula. I'd usually do each formula for 2 or so months before switching. I also took some powders for gut mucosa lining healing and incorporated 3-4 days of fasting before starting a new killing herb formula.

Edited September 4, 2021 by Ora

[Vision]

On 9/5/2021 at 11:02 AM, Ora said:

Everyone has their own "protocol," but out of all the ones I've found I like that the best. It's got steps, and rationales for them, all thats left is to follow it for the correct duration of time. I used to try this and try that for a month and didn't have much relief, then I just stuck to one protocol that's good and got relief.

His supps are nicely organized into steps and is convenient to just get and use, but I resourced my own from other sites for a bit cheaper, though the ingredients are mostly the same.

I used https://www.maybeitsmercury.com/supplements for fc cidal and dysbiocide as the main killing herbs. Combined with oregano oil, and allicin (only in the beginning since it's expensive) and restore flora from microbiome labs. Then I'd switch to apex energetics gi synergy from Dr Alex Reinhart website for my 2nd killing herb formula. I'd usually do each formula for 2 or so months before switching. I also took some powders for gut mucosa lining healing and incorporated 3-4 days of fasting before starting a new killing herb formula.

@Ora

What was your diet like during the protocol?

And did you do anything in particular to be able to stick to the fast?

[Ora]

I did liver flushes instead of water fasting. Basically drink half cup olive oil in the morning and evening mixed with half cup of grapefruit juice. An hour before I'd do water or a coffee enema to get the stones out from the previous drink. I'd also take some liver cleansing herbs (herbs that stimulate bile flow). Did it for 4-5 days.

Not big changes to diet, except I ate less vegetables, little more meat. Didn't eat stuff like celery or garlic much because that gave me bad gas because the prebiotic fibers.

[Vision]

@Ora

The book ‘Healthy Gut Healthy You’ talks about using probiotics and digestive enzymes in Step 2.

I’m still doing the modified fast in Step 1. Once I finish it, should I just skip Step 2 and go straight to Step 3 (removing bacteria) since I have SIBO? 

And what are your thoughts on using Rifaximin to kill the overgrown bacteria? 

[Ora]

On 9/27/2021 at 10:47 AM, Vision said:

@Ora

The book ‘Healthy Gut Healthy You’ talks about using probiotics and digestive enzymes in Step 2.

I’m still doing the modified fast in Step 1. Once I finish it, should I just skip Step 2 and go straight to Step 3 (removing bacteria) since I have SIBO? 

And what are your thoughts on using Rifaximin to kill the overgrown bacteria? 

i think probiotics are helpful. i myself used restorflora (spore probiotics) by microbiome labs. you can find it on fullscript through this persons link to get 25% off https://www.maybeitsmercury.com/supplements. but i think in his book he also said probiotics vary for different people. in some it may help in some it doesnt, but most studies point towards helping i think.

rifaximin is supposed to be similar in efficacy to herbal antibacterials. ive heard its expensive though unless your insurance can cover it. my friend whos a functional medicine doctor said that it also wont be a magic bullet. generally what he has found with it is that 1 course will knock 25% of the sibo out, then your second course will knock another 25% down. so you gotta keep doing a few rounds and reduce population slowly. its not like a bomb that just nukes everything at once. same with herbal antibacterials. so persistence is key with treating sibo. rarely will you just hit it with something and your all better. 

[Leo Gura]

I have found probiotics make my SIBO worse. You gotta be very careful just popping probiotics thinking they will magically cure you.

[Ora]

well thats why in the healthy gut healthy you book he recommends testing your own reaction to them. theres also 3 categories of probiotics and one may be good for you while another not. you probably took the general lactobacillus and bifido type ones. i like spore based myself. i forget the 3rd one.

[Vision]

On 10/4/2021 at 0:55 PM, Ora said:

i think probiotics are helpful. i myself used restorflora (spore probiotics) by microbiome labs. you can find it on fullscript through this persons link to get 25% off https://www.maybeitsmercury.com/supplements. but i think in his book he also said probiotics vary for different people. in some it may help in some it doesnt, but most studies point towards helping i think.

rifaximin is supposed to be similar in efficacy to herbal antibacterials. ive heard its expensive though unless your insurance can cover it. my friend whos a functional medicine doctor said that it also wont be a magic bullet. generally what he has found with it is that 1 course will knock 25% of the sibo out, then your second course will knock another 25% down. so you gotta keep doing a few rounds and reduce population slowly. its not like a bomb that just nukes everything at once. same with herbal antibacterials. so persistence is key with treating sibo. rarely will you just hit it with something and your all better. 

@Ora Thanks. What was your diet like when you were treating your SIBO?

[Ora]

mainly normal, just less vegetables. especially things that made me gassy like celery or garlic. tbh i wasnt very strict with myself and ate lots of ice cream and sugars haha. but then again in that book it also says its not necessary to eat low fodmap since he seems to find treatment still works with a normal diet. only if your getting bloated and gassy discomfort probably avoid whatever causes it

[Vision]

On 10/4/2021 at 3:22 PM, Leo Gura said:

I have found probiotics make my SIBO worse. You gotta be very careful just popping probiotics thinking they will magically cure you.

@Leo Gura[Loading...] That's the same with me. But I've only tried Mega Sporebiotic by microbiome labs. 
 

55 minutes ago, Ora said:

mainly normal, just less vegetables. especially things that made me gassy like celery or garlic. tbh i wasnt very strict with myself and ate lots of ice cream and sugars haha. but then again in that book it also says its not necessary to eat low fodmap since he seems to find treatment still works with a normal diet. only if your getting bloated and gassy discomfort probably avoid whatever causes it

@Ora And you still healed your SIBO? What were your symptoms like? 

[Ora]

yeah i got it knocked out. basically like 5 years ago i lived in a third world country for a while, and had diarrhea every day for 6 months. didnt realize it was because the food was so oily. but basically when you flush your intestines out so hard all the time it lets invasive bacteria proliferate since they always recover faster than good bacteria. so i had gas, like SERIOUS gas and bloating every day for the next 4 years. it usually started around 2pm and got worse and worse my stomach ballooning until about 4pm and id start letting the gas out and finally the pain subsided, but id spend the rest of the night just farting.

sometimes id eat something that would trigger it and id really go all night farting, it was horrible. but then i came back and did a 5 day fast, then started anti bacterial herb formulas like fc cidal/dysbiocide and gi synergy by apex (id alternate months with the formulas) and oregano oil and allicin. i only did allicin the first month because it was too expensive and not sure if it was necessary. also took restore flora by microbiome labs and a gut mucosal lining powder to reduce inflammation in the intestines and ulcer repair. i think i read reducing inflammation in the intestines is one of the most important, because if its inflammed, which if you have sibo it sure is, then its going to be hard for your microbiome to balance itself since its always on fire basically. and then every now and then id do another 3-5 day fast and it seemed to speed things up each time. 

i was listening to a podcast of this guy who did carnivore for few months and when he tested his gut microbiome, it was in the top 95% of most diverse microbiome. right now theres no real consensus of what are considered optimal balance of probiotics in the gut, but one thing most people do agree on is that the most healthy individuals and long lived always had the most DIVERSE microflora. so if your doing killing protocols, maybe you should combine it with carnivore. Carnivore is not a permanent diet mind you. its a therapeutic diet very beneficial for autoimmune and gut repair if done for a few months. just like vegan and vegetarian diets are great for detox, but i wouldnt do them too long term. same with keto. 

[Vision]

On 10/7/2021 at 7:04 AM, Ora said:

and oregano oil and allicin.

How much oregano oil and allicin did you take a day? Do you think it's sufficient for me to alternate between oregano oil (+ allicin) and neem (+ allicin) for antimicrobials?