SIBO Protocol - What to follow for combined hydrogen/methane?

[Vision]

I have combined hydrogen/methane SIBO. What would be an effective combination of antimicrobials?

I'm currently taking two 450mg allicin (Allimed/Allisure) capsules and two Berberine-500 capsules (by Thorne) a day.

The SIBO Notes website says to take 3x/day. Should I bump the berberine up to 3 capsules a day for 1500mg? 

I'm also taking 1200mg of Magnesium a day for constipation.

Are there any other supplements I should incorporate?

[Leo Gura]

More importantly, have you eliminated all carbs from your diet?

[Vision]

36 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

More importantly, have you eliminated all carbs from your diet?

@Leo Gura Yes. I haven't had carbs in months. 

[Leo Gura]

Well then, all the above supplements can work. Although there is no guarantee. They did not work for my SIBO. None of them did. You're throwing dice here. You just have to test every one.

[Vision]

@Leo Gura

What are you trying now? 

[WaltJ]

@Leo Gura curious what you think of this perspective of SIBO? Allen is a coach I’ve followed for years who I’ve seen help a lot of people overcome gut issues. I’ve seen you mention the no carb thing & thought perhaps I’d share this perspective in case it could spark a different approach! 

 

Edited August 14, 2021 by WaltJ

[Ora]

The no carb thing or low fodmap thing is kind of an old theory. Nowadays people say don't limit fodmaps and carbs because starving these bad bacteria just make them go into hiding so your killing supps don't work as efficiently. So just eat healthy and take antimicrobial at the same time.

I always like combo antibac herbs instead of 1 or 2. I recommend fc cidal and dysbiocide combo, or apex energetics gi synergy. You can also check out Michael ruscios website and book healthy gut healthy you. His site also has the supps in a good protocol if you don't want to customize it yourself.

You need to take the supps for 3-4 months for full benefit. Each round you kill maybe 25% only, so you need to keep at it for a few rounds. I'd switch antimicrobial every month.

It also dramatically boosts effects if you fast for 3-4 days then start antimicrobial. This way you starve all bacteria good and bad down, then when you eat again you incorporate antimicrobial to keep the bad suppressed, rather than trying to start killing them when they're at their full strength. I've found this speeds up results personally, dr ruscio also talks about this but he uses some no fodmap simple carb powder shake you drink for 5 days, but fasting is free.

[Vzdoh]

I am struggling with SIBO for a few years now. Tried a lot of things. Natural antimicrobials didn't do a thing for me. Like I never took them ever! 

Tried low carb - only reduced symptoms. 

Tried KETO, also didn't work. 

Next up - did microbiom test and found out exactly which bacteria are overgrowing and researched penicillin group of antimicrobials against each strain. Decided to take all of them at once in conjunction with a 7 day fast. - I saw on a Russian fasting guru youtube video that 7 days fast with enema, magnesium sulphate and warm bag to your pancreas and special exercise for tummy called the frog - all in combo - destroys bad bacteria protective film.

Hope can kill off the motherf***kers this time! ?

After that clean diet with a lot of good quality pre pro biotics and symbiotics - products of good bacteria. 

Will report back if helps. 

[Ora]

Careful of prebiotics. They feed sibo. Only when your clear of sibo should you slowly reintroduce.

Remember sibo is an overgrowth of bad AND good bacteria. They're just in a place they don't belong - the small intestine.

I think people who took natural antibiotics and not have it work for them is because they just took random ones or they didn't take it long enough. Sibo is not that hard to treat when tackled in a methodical approach. If you just take this or that for a month or two and your not healed so you stop, this usually won't work.

I always recommend the book healthy gut healthy you as a good breakdown on how to treat sibo.

[Michael569]

11 hours ago, Ora said:

Sibo is not that hard to treat when tackled in a methodical approach. If you just take this or that for a month or two and your not healed so you stop, this usually won't work.

Sibo can actually be as hard to treat as IBD. it may take some people up to a year to achieve full restoration. Sometimes more. Anyone who has fought it for years would tell you it is extremely complicated condition

Also to probiotics theory is not really true, most randomised controlled trials show benefits of probiotics supplementation in patients with SIBO despite the fact that naturopaths make up all these claims about sibo going dormant and probiotics making it worse et

But then naturopaths are notorious from ignoring wider evidence in favour of outdated protocols and overpriced tests

The probiotic theory is kinda counterintuitive, most people with sibo will benefit from probiotics as long as they take the right ones. The bacteria that is overpopulated is a quiet different phyla to those found in probiotics anyway

[Leo Gura]

@Vzdoh Easy way to break up biofilm is a supplement called Interfase by Klaire Labs. It works great. You should be taking it with your antibiotics. 3x per day, 30 mins before antibiotics and away from meals.

[Ora]

Probiotics can most definetly be beneficial in treating sibo. I was talking about PREbiotics being usually counterproductive. They usually worsen gas and bloating.

Sibo isn't easy to treat of course, but a well planned protocol works wonders. It's not as simple as just take this and your healed, but it isn't as insidious as people make it out to be; it's just the lack of a good protocol and not sticking with it long enough makes people relapse and then they usually say "this didn't work for me" when its just that they didn't stick with it for the correct duration.

[Vision]

I've been low carb for so long, but I've noticed that a few days into this treatment protocol, I have extremely strong cravings for carbs like quinoa, bananas, and kiwifruits. 

@Leo Gura @Michael569 If those carbs don't exacerbate my symptoms, would it be okay to consume them? Or should I stay on the safe side and avoid high carb foods altogether?

I'm also wanting to drink coffee. Is there a SIBO-friendly coffee? 

[Leo Gura]

15 minutes ago, Vision said:

I have extremely strong cravings for carbs like quinoa, bananas, and kiwifruits.

That's probably the bacteria tricking your mind into feeding them their fave foods.

Bacteria will actually create carb cravings when you try to starve them out.

I wouldn't eat that stuff. It's a trap!

[Vision]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

That's probably the bacteria tricking your mind into feeding them their fave foods.

Bacteria will actually create carb cravings when you try to starve them out.

I wouldn't eat that stuff. It's a trap!

@Leo Gura 

So it's a good sign then right? If I'm having such strong cravings for carbs, It means that the bacteria is getting starved out? (I'm in the starvation phase of the protocol by the way)

[Leo Gura]

6 minutes ago, Vision said:

@Leo Gura 

So it's a good sign then right? If I'm having such strong cravings for carbs, It means that the bacteria is getting starved out? (I'm in the starvation phase of the protocol by the way)

Not so fast. It's really hard to starve out bacteria. I tried for 1 month and it didn't work. Bacteria can live in your gut for months without food it seems. So starving them out is not very effective.

You just have to test to see what works and what doesn't. It will depend on the kind of bacteria you got.

[OBEler]

@Leo Gura what do you think of sadguhrus neem and kurkuma balls. i would give it a try if you havnt, i feel a difference

"Method 3: Mix a 1/4 teaspoon (1 gm) of neem powder with a small amount of water until a paste forms. Once there is a paste-like texture, use your hands to form a small ball. Use 1 gm of neem powder to prepare neem balls. Swallow this ball along with drinking light honey in lukewarm water every morning on an empty stomach before starting your sadhana"

[Vision]

7 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

So starving them out is not very effective.

@Leo Gura What else can be done other than starving them out? I thought that it's a necessary part of any SIBO treatment protocol. 

[Michael569]

1 hour ago, Vision said:

those carbs don't exacerbate my symptoms, would it be okay to consume them? Or should I stay on the safe side and avoid high carb foods altogether?

Contrary to above I'd say you should keep low fodmaps in if you can tolerate them. You also need tl protect your microbiome colonies. If you lose the largest phyla due to fibre deprivation you're gonna have a hard time fixing your gut and keeping your mood stable. 

[Leo Gura]

11 hours ago, Vision said:

@Leo Gura What else can be done other than starving them out? I thought that it's a necessary part of any SIBO treatment protocol. 

Antibiotics + starving out is the best chance of success.