Workaholism - a way to escape closeness and intimacy?

[Esilda]

On 14/08/2021 at 7:40 PM, Vzdoh said:

I don't feel lonely. I used to a long time ago, but these days, after 7-8 years of ongoing therapy, I feel completely content with being on my own. So it's not loneliness. At least I don't feel this way. It's a genuine desire for true intimacy and closeness in a relationship, because if these things are missing, then why stay in a relationship at all?

He is very polite and considerate and many times he 100% prefers to avoid talking about stuff in a direct manner probably out of fear of hurting my feelings. He is German, so he can be as direct as me. But he is definitely more considerate. And this avoidance of talking about stuff even that it might hurt my feelings is what upsets me the most and actually creates a disconnect and breaks intimacy and openness at least for me. Maybe for him, it is totally fine. So basically whenever it is discomforting for him, either due to him thinking that honesty will hurt me or he is afraid to go deep into his own shit, he just prefers not to talk about it. And this is what kills the connection for me.

If communication is a need of yours that is not being met I feel like what else can you do other than make your needs known and see if they're fulfilled or not fulfilled? There's no time for self-blame if you've honoured yourself, there's no time to come up with wonderful strategies that manipulate him into honouring your needs, there's just the simple case of... "I've expressed myself honestly and truly to my deepest needs and they have been able to be met in this way but not this way and this is how I'm/we're moving forward with it now."

The thing I notice is that you said "maybe for him it is totally fine", which tells me you're feeling a barrier to even bringing up something as simple as communication with him, like there isn't just that clean runway where if there's something you'd like to talk about you can just bring it up and begin a conversation. That would be like resembling the characteristics to 10/10 communication and then as we decrease from there we're just looking at increasingly more distance and friction. Open hearts breaks closed minds and helps us clear the air and create commitment to another level of communication.

I really do feel like there's a deeper level within you that needs to be communicated, it would be up to you all the ways that you decided you were going to have that need fulfilled .

I feel like an honest conversation needs to be had on each others needs in the relationship and what you both can do to meet each other in the middle but with communication being low I don't know how low and all the barriers there I'm really feeling for you.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Esilda

[Vzdoh]

2 hours ago, Esilda said:

If communication is a need of yours that is not being met I feel like what else can you do other than make your needs known and see if they're fulfilled or not fulfilled? There's no time for self-blame if you've honoured yourself, there's no time to come up with wonderful strategies that manipulate him into honouring your needs, there's just the simple case of... "I've expressed myself honestly and truly to my deepest needs and they have been able to be met in this way but not this way and this is how I'm/we're moving forward with it now."

The thing I notice is that you said "maybe for him it is totally fine", which tells me you're feeling a barrier to even bringing up something as simple as communication with him, like there isn't just that clean runway where if there's something you'd like to talk about you can just bring it up and begin a conversation. That would be like resembling the characteristics to 10/10 communication and then as we decrease from there we're just looking at increasingly more distance and friction. Open hearts breaks closed minds and helps us clear the air and create commitment to another level of communication.

I really do feel like there's a deeper level within you that needs to be communicated, it would be up to you all the ways that you decided you were going to have that need fulfilled .

I feel like an honest conversation needs to be had on each others needs in the relationship and what you both can do to meet each other in the middle but with communication being low I don't know how low and all the barriers there I'm really feeling for you.

Communication is no issue. Its just I prefer to communicate such serious relationship stuff in person and due to my trip abroad and quarantine after, I haven't had a chance to see him yet. Seeing him soon though and hope to address most of the stuff that bothers me. 

He is a good guy, that's why i don't just drop him, but trying to understand what can be done and if hears me out.

but he does need to look harder at himself in terms of avoiding himself and how he communicates too if he really wants to build something lasting with me. 

16 hours ago, aurum said:

 

17 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

 

[Farnaby]

@Vzdoh I sense some resentment that's growing inside of you, because of important needs that you have that you feel are not being met. 

I would turn the mirror around and communicate your feelings without pushing (not even in subtle ways) him towards a change that you think would make you more happy. 

The vibe I get is one of lack of unconditional acceptance and of expecting him to change in some way that you predict will make you both more happy. And it's probably true, but when you try to get someone to change it, even if it could be helathy for that person and the relationship, it's a recipe for problems. 

1 hour ago, Vzdoh said:

but he does need to look harder at himself in terms of avoiding himself and how he communicates too if he really wants to build something lasting with me.

This is what I'm talking about. My advice is to focus less on what he needs to do, because the underlying message is: "you're not good enough as you are. I need you to change", which will only create more issues.

[Vzdoh]

4 hours ago, Farnaby said:

@Vzdoh I sense some resentment that's growing inside of you, because of important needs that you have that you feel are not being met. 

I would turn the mirror around and communicate your feelings without pushing (not even in subtle ways) him towards a change that you think would make you more happy. 

The vibe I get is one of lack of unconditional acceptance and of expecting him to change in some way that you predict will make you both more happy. And it's probably true, but when you try to get someone to change it, even if it could be helathy for that person and the relationship, it's a recipe for problems. 

This is what I'm talking about. My advice is to focus less on what he needs to do, because the underlying message is: "you're not good enough as you are. I need you to change", which will only create more issues.

Yeah! I see the point. But question is how to communicate my needs and their importance to me and to the relationship success without attaching any "you r not good enough" messages.

Any ideas? 

8 hours ago, Esilda said:

 

22 hours ago, aurum said:

 

23 hours ago, Etherial Cat said:

 

[Farnaby]

@Vzdoh that's a good question, still trying to figure that one out in my own relationship lol. 

I find the 5 secrets of effective communication by David Burns useful for this. 

Basically, expressing how you feel clearly, directly and respectfully (an example would be saying "I feel lonely" instead of "when you work so much I feel neglected", because the second one is still a way of blaming), while trying to understand the feelings of your partner and opening the door to finding a way to work it out together. 

[Parththakkar12]

2 hours ago, Vzdoh said:

Yeah! I see the point. But question is how to communicate my needs and their importance to me and to the relationship success without attaching any "you r not good enough" messages.

Any ideas? 

Introspect for mistrust of men in general, anti-male biases, daddy-issues etc. Whether they're there or not, it's helpful to do it and reconfirm if you're struggling to do the communication you're talking about. Work out any issues you find. That's when you'll access your authentic truth, without any filter, without any biases (if you hadn't accessed it already).

Once you see that you're not coming from a prejudiced place because of personal wounding or you are able to set aside your biases from the objective reality of the situation (which, judging from your posts, you look like you are), then you go through with the communication. Put your narrative forth. It will naturally come from a much more vulnerable place. Then, if he gets triggered because of it, that's on him! Then he's projecting onto you. And you know this for a fact now because you know yourself enough to see what's true and what's not true when he deflects or projects anything back onto you!

[Vzdoh]

@Parththakkar12

@Farnaby

Thank you guys for advice! I will retrospect in the hope of really distilling in a raw form how I feel and why but without blaming him for what he does. At the end of the day, we are responsible for how and what we choose to feel regardless of actions of the other person. 

It's difficult no doubt! But I will try. Lucky for me, I don't have an issue with vulnerability and authenticity when it comes to being myself. My issue normally is I am too direct without as much empathy as I could have expressed while being direct at the same time. Still learning how to combine the two. ❤️?

 

8 hours ago, Farnaby said:

@Vzdoh that's a good question, still trying to figure that one out in my own relationship lol. 

I find the 5 secrets of effective communication by David Burns useful for this. 

Basically, expressing how you feel clearly, directly and respectfully (an example would be saying "I feel lonely" instead of "when you work so much I feel neglected", because the second one is still a way of blaming), while trying to understand the feelings of your partner and opening the door to finding a way to work it out together. 

18 hours ago, Esilda said:

 

On 16/08/2021 at 1:26 AM, aurum said:

 

On 16/08/2021 at 0:49 AM, Etherial Cat said:

 

[Esilda]

On 16/08/2021 at 8:13 PM, Vzdoh said:

Communication is no issue. Its just I prefer to communicate such serious relationship stuff in person and due to my trip abroad and quarantine after, I haven't had a chance to see him yet. Seeing him soon though and hope to address most of the stuff that bothers me. 

He is a good guy, that's why i don't just drop him, but trying to understand what can be done and if hears me out.

but he does need to look harder at himself in terms of avoiding himself and how he communicates too if he really wants to build something lasting with me. 

It really sounds like you've made a lot of progress reflecting on this @Vzdoh wishing you the best love  

[Nahm]

On 8/15/2021 at 1:37 PM, Vzdoh said:

How to help him to feel more? 

The Truth. 

[Vzdoh]

@Nahm

15 hours ago, Nahm said:

The Truth. 

@Parththakkar12

@Farnaby

What do you mean? 

On 17/08/2021 at 1:39 AM, Farnaby said:

@Vzdoh

On 16/08/2021 at 3:16 PM, Esilda said:

 

On 16/08/2021 at 1:26 AM, aurum said:

 

On 16/08/2021 at 0:49 AM, Etherial Cat said:

 

[Vzdoh]

Yesterday we had a chat. I opened with the story about my mom and how difficult I felt and expressed gratitude for how he supported me through that crisis. 

Then went into things I had issues/emotional reactions to. He apologised and promised to be more open and direct in his communication. 

And lastly, touched upon how I felt about my basic need for more regular physical intimacy not being met fully. I didn't say anything about his overwork or how he needs to manage his time or anything. Just talked about how I felt and how certain things made me deeply unhappy and unfulfilled. 

He responded with asking what needs to be done for me not to feel this way or what I need for this to work for me.

I mentioned more physical closeness, more regular sex, and like waking up together.

And we agreed to make Sunday our day, no conf calls or other work, starting this weekend. 

Let's see how it goes. I am happy for now ?❤️?

Thank you guys for all your inputs! 

Love and light! ❤️?

[tsuki]

@Vzdoh This is wonderful! I am so happy for you .

[aurum]

8 hours ago, Vzdoh said:

Yesterday we had a chat. I opened with the story about my mom and how difficult I felt and expressed gratitude for how he supported me through that crisis. 

Then went into things I had issues/emotional reactions to. He apologised and promised to be more open and direct in his communication. 

And lastly, touched upon how I felt about my basic need for more regular physical intimacy not being met fully. I didn't say anything about his overwork or how he needs to manage his time or anything. Just talked about how I felt and how certain things made me deeply unhappy and unfulfilled. 

He responded with asking what needs to be done for me not to feel this way or what I need for this to work for me.

I mentioned more physical closeness, more regular sex, and like waking up together.

And we agreed to make Sunday our day, no conf calls or other work, starting this weekend. 

Let's see how it goes. I am happy for now ?❤️?

Thank you guys for all your inputs! 

Love and light! ❤️?

Glad to hear!

[Vzdoh]

@Parththakkar12

@Farnaby

Well! Update. It didn't last very long. Got cancelled on last minute because of work excuse. ???

I guess that's my answer. Gonna end it. Thank you guys nonetheless for your support and opinions in the matter. Really appreciate it! ❤️?

On 17/08/2021 at 1:39 AM, Farnaby said:

@Vzdoh

On 16/08/2021 at 3:16 PM, Esilda said:

 

On 16/08/2021 at 1:26 AM, aurum said:

 

On 16/08/2021 at 0:49 AM, Etherial Cat said:

 

[RickyFitts]

Oh I'm so sorry to hear that, Vzdoh, you deserve so much better 

[Gesundheit2]

Hypergamy. He prefers the money lol.

[Jacob Morres]

On 8/16/2021 at 7:45 AM, Farnaby said:

@Vzdoh I sense some resentment that's growing inside of you, because of important needs that you have that you feel are not being met. 

I would turn the mirror around and communicate your feelings without pushing (not even in subtle ways) him towards a change that you think would make you more happy. 

The vibe I get is one of lack of unconditional acceptance and of expecting him to change in some way that you predict will make you both more happy. And it's probably true, but when you try to get someone to change it, even if it could be helathy for that person and the relationship, it's a recipe for problems. 

This is what I'm talking about. My advice is to focus less on what he needs to do, because the underlying message is: "you're not good enough as you are. I need you to change", which will only create more issues.

wise af 

[Zeroguy]

Sometimes I really wonder is @Nahm really that naive or just pretends to be.

Good thing we share same values. 

Despite don't judge the experience. 

So is this chick "won" or not. Well you guys decide. 

[Nahm]

@Zeroguy

How so bro?

[Windappreciator]

@Zeroguy Is everything ok with you? You seem somewhat off to me many times.