Workaholism - a way to escape closeness and intimacy?

[Vzdoh]

4 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

@Vzdoh it is a serious statement. Why wouldn't it be?

Why would I not want to have my needs met in a relationship? Why would I be in a relationship where my needs are not met on a continuous basis? 

Is it OK for u to be in such a relationship? Why do u stay in such a relationship when u feel deeply unfulfilled? 

[Windappreciator]

@Vzdoh

"Why would I not want to have my needs met in a relationship? Why would I be in a relationship where my needs are not met on a continuous basis? "

I am not here to assault you with criticism. 

Please bring your understanding closer to what I was conveying. 

There are in many women unhealthy fixations on expecting men to fulfill something for them and be a certain way. 

It's often represented by mapping the "right man" out in your mind. 

Try to let go of it.

Usually what you actively fear, is what you will eventually get.

 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Vzdoh]

27 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

@Vzdoh

"Why would I not want to have my needs met in a relationship? Why would I be in a relationship where my needs are not met on a continuous basis? "

I am not here to assault you with criticism. 

Please bring your understanding closer to what I was conveying. 

There are in many women unhealthy fixations on expecting men to fulfill something for them and be a certain way. 

It's often represented by mapping the "right man" out in your mind. 

Try to let go of it.

Usually what you actively fear, is what you will eventually get.

 

OK. Valid point. Does anything that I have expressed so far in this post about my needs that I am looking to get met in a relationship sound unhealthy to you?

For the record, I am not actively fearful of a lack of intimacy in a relationship. I simply notice it if it happens and then decide if I am ok with it? How do I feel about it? How important that need for me on a scale from 1 to 10 and if it is 10/10 and intimacy does not improve after conversations and communication with the partner, I simply leave the relationship. I have an abundance mindset. There are guys who combine both EQ and IQ, it's just a matter of meeting them.

[Gesundheit2]

@Vzdoh The thing is that intimacy is 100% imaginary.

Consider this; a human can form an intimate relationship with an animal, or even with inanimate objects. For example, one can intimately love their job, or coffee, or a tree, or anything else. Does that mean that the objects are reciprocating? Of course not. It's all in our heads. And really, intimacy is just another word for attachment or neediness.

And btw, I wasn't talking about emotional unavailability. I, as a man, don't resonate with intimacy like women do. I used to, but not anymore. So, I can be available for the girl if I want to, it's all an act after all, but I won't be feeling anything. My experience will be devoid of any emotions. At the same time, she will be feeling all sorts of emotions with me, and when she's alone she will be fantasizing about how I make her feel. Little does she know, but why wake her up and ruin everything?

[Nahm]

@Vzdoh

Sounds like you both are at the very pinnacle of Maslow’s pyramid for muggles…. but that’s it. Neither taking the real step beyond. You’re not satisfied, and looking to him. He’s not satisfied, and isn’t even looking yet. 

[Vzdoh]

3 hours ago, Nahm said:

@Vzdoh

Sounds like you both are at the very pinnacle of Maslow’s pyramid for muggles…. but that’s it. Neither taking the real step beyond. You’re not satisfied, and looking to him. He’s not satisfied, and isn’t even looking yet. 

That's not a particularly helpful or considerate comment, especially coming from a moderator. Very disappointed. ???

What do u mean about the real step beyond?

Would be good to have clear language. Not some vague pronunciations. Cause its not helpful. 

I am not looking to him to be satisfied in all aspects of my life. This is an absurd generalisation. I take care of my needs on my own. But I do need to feel intimacy in a relationship, otherwise what's the meaning of a relationship? 

If he was not looking, he would have continued working hard and avoided any meaningful relationship with anyone. So he is trying hard based on all the effort he makes. 

If your comment is spitful and lacks insight and directed to mock instead of help, why make it? And how on earth you became a moderator with such attitude? ?

[Roy]

11 hours ago, Vzdoh said:

He likes me a lot, so I can try to get him to spend time with me doing self-care stuff and sports which he enjoys, and try organizing this time for him on a consistent basis for him to realize after a while that he enjoys this time and would love to experience more of it. It's like if he drops work, there is gonna be avoid, right? And I want to slowly perhaps fill in the traditional weekend rest time with something meaningful, so he does not feel that void, but a positive switch instead. What do you think?

I think you're onto something  

He just needs to genuinely see there are alternatives, and that his life will actually be better, and not fall apart with a little less work.

[aurum]

4 hours ago, Gesundheit2 said:

@Vzdoh The thing is that intimacy is 100% imaginary.

Consider this; a human can form an intimate relationship with an animal, or even with inanimate objects. For example, one can intimately love their job, or coffee, or a tree, or anything else. Does that mean that the objects are reciprocating? Of course not. It's all in our heads. And really, intimacy is just another word for attachment or neediness.

And btw, I wasn't talking about emotional unavailability. I, as a man, don't resonate with intimacy like women do. I used to, but not anymore. So, I can be available for the girl if I want to, it's all an act after all, but I won't be feeling anything. My experience will be devoid of any emotions. At the same time, she will be feeling all sorts of emotions with me, and when she's alone she will be fantasizing about how I make her feel. Little does she know, but why wake her up and ruin everything?

Yup, no trauma at all in these statements. Sounds totally healthy.

[Gesundheit2]

Just now, aurum said:

Yup, no trauma at all in these statements. Sounds totally healthy.

I am traumatized. Heal me or shut up.

[Vzdoh]

1 minute ago, aurum said:

Yup, no trauma at all in these statements. Sounds totally healthy.

????????????

Oh good! I am not the only one who thought oh shit! The dude does not feel anything and self justifies to himself that this is OK ???

[Windappreciator]

6 hours ago, Vzdoh said:

OK. Valid point. Does anything that I have expressed so far in this post about my needs that I am looking to get met in a relationship sound unhealthy to you?

It's not really about the type of your needs. 

I feel like this based on the frequency I have seen you issue similar things and clearly this thread.

I don't think nahm meant to insult you. He means you to stop worrying about relationship attachments and look inside yourself.

Easier said than done, I know. 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Gesundheit2]

Just now, Vzdoh said:

????????????

Oh good! I am not the only one who thought oh shit! The dude does not feel anything and self justifies to himself that this is OK ???

 

It is actually pretty good. And I don't feel bad about myself.

Watch your closed-mindedness and projections.

[Etherial Cat]

It would be likely that he's working himself to death to avoid intimacy with himself first and foremost. 

That's a typical symptom of people living in very competitive and affluant areas of the world who kinda have to sell themself to their hierarchy or business in order to get the compensation they wish.

Is he an entrepreneur or does he work a high responsibility job in finance, trading or something similar ?

[Nahm]

57 minutes ago, Vzdoh said:

That's not a particularly helpful or considerate comment, especially coming from a moderator. Very disappointed. ???

Agreed. Neither helpful nor considerate to anyone, yet no one is disappointed, and no one cares about projected expectations. They’re fictitious. The top of Maslow’s pyramid is a complimentary sentiment, but of course take it how you might. Something an exceptionally small percentage of people experience. The mugglfication of the pyramid points to the good news, that there is so much more. That you’ve not really even started yet. 

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What do u mean about the real step beyond?

Realizing you’re creating this via dreaming, basically. Understanding what you’re attracting & why, and consciously proceeding. 

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Would be good to have clear language. Not some vague pronunciations. Cause its not helpful. 

A real step beyond, also as in actual expansion, vs trying to pack everything into an existing box. 

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I am not looking to him to be satisfied in all aspects of my life. This is an absurd generalisation. I take care of my needs on my own. But I do need to feel intimacy in a relationship, otherwise what's the meaning of a relationship? 

What’s this need based on? How are you so certain? What does meaning have to do with a relationship? 

Quote

If he was not looking, he would have continued working hard and avoided any meaningful relationship with anyone. So he is trying hard based on all the effort he makes. 

Doesn’t sound like it. Sounds like he’s avoiding his own intimacy, and in doing so unknowingly, avoiding the relationship. It melts the armor, getting ‘too’ close. The Light’ll melt all that “meaningful” stuff away. 

Quote

If your comment is spitful and lacks insight and directed to mock instead of help, why make it? And how on earth you became a moderator with such attitude? ?

That’s just how you’re choosing to take it. Always up to you. 

[Vzdoh]

1 minute ago, Etherial Cat said:

It would be likely that he's working himself to death to avoid intimacy with himself first and foremost. 

That's a typical symptom of people living in very competitive and affluant areas of the world who kinda have to sell themself to their hierarchy or business in order to get the compensation they wish.

Is he an entrepreneur or does he work a high responsibility job in finance, trading or something similar ?

Yeah! I have a suspicion that this is indeed the case. Afraid to stay with himself without needing to do anything, just being. 

Yes. High responsibility job. Reports directly to a CEO of a multi billion dollar company and directly responsible for peoples lives on many factory building projects he runs across Asia. And let's put it this way, his company's track record in safety standards and number of people dying from work related accidents is not insignificant ???

[Etherial Cat]

1 minute ago, Vzdoh said:

Yeah! I have a suspicion that this is indeed the case. Afraid to stay with himself without needing to do anything, just being. 

Yes. High responsibility job. Reports directly to a CEO of a multi billion dollar company and directly responsible for peoples lives on many factory building projects he runs across Asia. And let's put it this way, his company's track record in safety standards and number of people dying from work related accidents is not insignificant ???

I think it's likely that he's burying himself to work so he doesn't have to deal with his "ghosts". His consciousness is likely aching and he must have a history of repression to cope.

It must be very soul tormenting to walk away from this job and the normalization it offers in terms of perspective to what is a very disturbing underlying reality.

Is there anything he could do to improve the numbers and diminish the accidents? Or just walk away to a job were he could slowly rekindle with his authenticity? Something with more meaning?

It ain't worth much to have material success if deeply within you are feeling miserable. 

 

[aurum]

37 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

I am traumatized.

Oh I know.

Your posts I’ve seen in the other subforums are often insightful. But when it comes to dating, your posts often miss. This is clearly a sore spot for you.

And no shade by the way. I recognize it because I recognize it in myself.

40 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

Heal me or shut up.

Happy to work with you if you want.

39 minutes ago, Vzdoh said:

????????????

Oh good! I am not the only one who thought oh shit! The dude does not feel anything and self justifies to himself that this is OK ???

It’s a really common pattern for guys. Traumatic past experiences -> learn to not feel your emotions -> become emotionally repressed adult.

[Vzdoh]

8 minutes ago, aurum said:

Oh I know.

Your posts I’ve seen in the other subforums are often insightful. But when it comes to dating, your posts often miss. This is clearly a sore spot for you.

And no shade by the way. I recognize it because I recognize it in myself.

Happy to work with you if you want.

It’s a really common pattern for guys. Traumatic past experiences -> learn to not feel your emotions -> become emotionally repressed adult.

My BF had very traumatic experience and on an enneagram test he scored the lowest in the feeling center. Like his feeling center is super miniscule.

How to help him to feel more? 

This should help as well with him being more intimate with himself and as a result, with me I think. 

43 minutes ago, Etherial Cat said:

 

[Gesundheit2]

13 minutes ago, aurum said:

Happy to work with you if you want.

No, thanks. With the way you initiated contact (patronizing, sarcastic, and judgemental) I don't think you're in a place to heal others. I am good on my own, and would be better if you would take the second route I offered.

[aurum]

1 minute ago, Vzdoh said:

How to help him to feel more? 

If he’s open to vipassana meditation, that could definitely help. Doing body scans is basically just feeling all the sensations going on in your body, without judging. Trauma can then be released as old energy surfaces and clears.