Don't take psychedelics. BAD IDEA. Here's why.

[James12345]

Enlightenment will never happen with psychedelics, because it has nothing to do with experiencing, perception, feeling vsvs. 

[lmfao]

Don't take psychedelics if they aren't for you. Psychedelics aren't for me, for example, I'm already unstable enough. 

Existence alone is literally already insanity inducing enough for me, being in ontological depths of despair since being a young teenager. I didn't choose any of this shit, it just happened. How could a kid have chosen it? 
I try to make myself forget the insanity, distract myself. I can access the insanity, I've just implicitly chosen to run away from it and make myself forget. But that doesn't work and just keeps causing problems. I have to uncover it 

Whatever guru or book or technique I read or see, it's literally a distraction perhaps. There's a big elephant just poking out in my experience. So, I must go to it?
--
If I had capacity to be psychotic I would already be so, but never say never 

Edited August 11, 2021 by lmfao

[Tim R]

6 hours ago, Endangered-EGO said:

4. Psychedelics can make you schizophrenic or psychotic.

That's wrong, period. This is a relic from the 60s, where politicians used to fear-monger with "acid-casualties". 

Psychedelics can't make you schizophrenic or psychotic. They can only trigger already existing predispositions for psychosis (schizophrenia is considered to be a form of psychosis).  Which is why you should better not take psychedelics if you have struggled with mental problems of this kind. But for a healthy individual, your point does absolutely not apply. 

The science on this issue is very clear:

https://www.nature.com/articles/nature.2015.16968

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0269881114568039

https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/0269881114565653

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3747247/

[OBEler]

@Endangered-EGO My girlfriend has big trauma in her,has  suicidal thoughts, is hyper sensitive to all things ( No tolerance to alcohol, light sensitive and so on), has many allergies, heavy headaches, migraine attacks on almost daily basis, was diagnosed with psychosis, sees ghosts (people, animals who do not exist) everywhere, had Fibromyalgie where she could not use her arms for normal tasks for two years. Then she started using psychedelica. She took heavy doses on every weekend for 5 month so far. Had regular ego deaths, mystical experiences and so on. She went to hell and to heaven. Both was necessary.

To make it short: psychedelica saved her life. It cured her Fibromyalgie (which is almost impossible to cure). She is free from migraine, her headaches are reduced, she is no light sensitive anymore. And the trauma she had is seen from a new perspective. It looks small compared to the things she experienced on heavy dosages. She still suffers from trauma but she released a ton of negative energy out of her system. 

So you see, psychedelica can even be good for those who should not use psychedelica at all in the common sense. So I hope I opened your limited perspective a bit. I am sorry for you, that you had such a hard time with psychedelica but everyone is different. What is bad for you, is good for another person. So don't be so dogmatic about it. 

[Dumuzzi]

@Endangered-EGO I tend to agree with you, though it is hard for me to say anything definitive about psychedelics, as I've never tried them. I would certainly be open to going on a guided, shamanic ayahuasca trip in an authentic setting, but I'm generally wary of psychedelics, mostly because we know so little about them and due to the well-documented dangers.

An important question is this:

If certain meditative and yogic practices stimulate the production of DMT by the pineal gland, naturally, what exactly would be the moral objection to taking this naturally occurring compound artificially? I cannot find any good reason to find the taking of DMT at least, objectionable. I believe trials are currently being conducted in London to study its therapeutic uses. It may become a very effective treatment for depression and a host of other mental ailments, which have become shockingly rampant in modern society.

Edited August 11, 2021 by Dumuzzi

[Thought Art]

There is lots of scientific evidence which shows that LSD, mushrooms and even 5meo are safe. 

If you already have mental health problems that isn't really psychedelics fault. 

Here is a fun video on LSD:

Also, can we just admit that Connor murphy was taking chronic megadoses for like days at a time? Also, he was watching a lot of videos on youtube. Many people think they are aliens for some reason.

 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Thought Art

[Thought Art]

I am not sure if you understand psychedelics, the science surrounding them, enlightenment, or liberation by your post.

What I actually read in your post is that you are upset, scared and going through a lot of suffering. Seems you've had a pretty tricky diagnoses. You don't need to use these tools, especially with such a diagnoses. Take time to heal. Theres plenty of tools. 

[Breakingthewall]

@OBEler i agree with you. in your girlfriend's circumstances is when psychedelics can work miracles

[Jonty]

I've had experience with many different psychedelics over the years. Some suited me, some didn't. I've had my fair share of bad trips, but equally had some wonderful and very insightful experiences.

The answer here surely must be to do them if they suit your practice and if you feel psychologically able to cope with both good and bad trips. If not, then try something else, but always use common sense. 

Personally, I don't drink alcohol, but see why people would want to, it's a choice. Richard Alpert was a huge advocate of psychedelics, Rupert Spira isn't. Same difference. 

What I'm trying to say is that if it suits you then great, if it doesn't then great. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Jonty

[Thought Art]

20 minutes ago, Jonty said:

What I'm trying to say is that if it suits you then great, if it doesn't then great. 

This is great.

[impulse9]

Psychedelics aren't useless, but they will never enlighten you. They offer a taste of the mystical, but that's all it is - a taste. If you want the full thing you're gonna have to do the impossible and let go of your ego and your attachments.

[Jonty]

@Thought Art @Thought Art ?? Yeah maybe a little heavy handed with the word there. All great though!

Edited August 11, 2021 by Jonty

[Endangered-EGO]

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

@Endangered-EGO By that logic you should not do any spiritual practices either.

Whatever bad things you say about psychedelics will apply to any hardcore spiritual practice.

@Leo Gura It's different in a sense, that you can always stop hardcore spiritual practice any second. I know that some people react pretty well to psychedelics, but you're just going to know if it works after going through it. If you're unlucky the damage has been done.
What's the point of taking psychedelics if you risk to suffer MORE afterwards?

 

 

8 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

If you get to cite Connor Murphy against psychedelics, then I get to cite every cult leader guru against your spiritual practices. Two can play that game.

Well some zen temples used to start with making the young students feel miserable, so that they never forget how bad and ugly life can get. There's really dark shit going on in spiritual circles. Connor isn't really even the worst case scenario, there are people who took only one psychedelic and developed very ugly forms of psychotic delusions/schizophrenia, believing they are in hell and the devil tries to trick them.

A good thing for the psychedelic scene would be to find a way to reverse the side effects when things go south, because that's what meditation teachers do, when students can't handle awakenings.  The collateral damage is way higher in the psychedelics scene. You wouldn't want to create more broken people than enlightened people. Kundalini Yoga is probably the spiritual practice that breaks most people. A woman once asked in a forum how to look into the sun without hurting her eyes. The stronger the practice, the bigger the risks, the more casualties will occur.

[Endangered-EGO]

4 hours ago, lmfao said:

Don't take psychedelics if they aren't for you. Psychedelics aren't for me, for example, I'm already unstable enough. 

Existence alone is literally already insanity inducing enough for me, being in ontological depths of despair since being a young teenager. I didn't choose any of this shit, it just happened. How could a kid have chosen it? 
I try to make myself forget the insanity, distract myself. I can access the insanity, I've just implicitly chosen to run away from it and make myself forget. But that doesn't work and just keeps causing problems. I have to uncover it 

Whatever guru or book or technique I read or see, it's literally a distraction perhaps. There's a big elephant just poking out in my experience. So, I must go to it?
--
If I had capacity to be psychotic I would already be so, but never say never 

@lmfao Then don't uncover it with force (psychedelics).

 

 

3 hours ago, Tim R said:

That's wrong, period. This is a relic from the 60s, where politicians used to fear-monger with "acid-casualties". 

Psychedelics can't make you schizophrenic or psychotic. They can only trigger already existing predispositions for psychosis (schizophrenia is considered to be a form of psychosis).  Which is why you should better not take psychedelics if you have struggled with mental problems of this kind. But for a healthy individual, your point does absolutely not apply. 

The science on this issue is very clear:

I am aware of that. But you cannot always know that you have already existing predispositions for psychosis. 
If you have a sober awakening, or a "change in perception" or DP/DR, or no sense of self. Guess what: That's a big big predisposition for psychosis.

Spiritual enlightenment is a predisposition for psychosis. Something wrong with your brain is a predisposition.

Being open minded enough to believe in spiritual enlightenment, may count as magical beliefs. You either need to suffer a lot, or be at least a little crazy to get into spiritual enlightenment. I would love to know how many people here are on the schizophrenia spectrum.

The point is: There's no way to know if you have a predisposition, it's most of the time only recognised in retrospect.

[Endangered-EGO]

@OBEler Psychiatry is clear that people who have psychosis shouldn't take psychedelics. I guess she still has psychosis today. However I'm glad she's doing fine.

@Thought Art Fortunately, I don't suffer as much as I used to. But I didn't have a lot of fun, post-awakening.

 

28 minutes ago, impulse9 said:

Psychedelics aren't useless, but they will never enlighten you. They offer a taste of the mystical, but that's all it is - a taste. If you want the full thing you're gonna have to do the impossible and let go of your ego and your attachments.

@impulse9 That's what I mean, psychedelics don't seem to liberate, in the sense that they would reduce suffering.

[Breakingthewall]

11 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

That's what I mean, psychedelics don't seem to liberate, in the sense that they would reduce suffering.

Psychedelic are not only for enlightenment, they have enormous potential for release of trauma, for reconfiguration of energy, to undo knots. they can increase your quality of life in incredible ways. Another thing is that people too lazy to do meditation practices, lead an integrated life, in short, do the work, use them as a low cost substitute. this is very tempting, and I think negative. but if you use them as a complement to serious work, I think they are almost always positive

[mandyjw]

I don't think the bad idea is in the method, but in the more underlying misinterpretation that there is someone who is trying to become God realized who can utilize methods to become a secured form of themselves from a place of insecurity. This is the disconnection with the true intuition and connection that the methods offer to connect you with. "Whoever has will be given more, and they will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what they have will be taken from them." -Jesus

Edited August 11, 2021 by mandyjw

[Tim R]

24 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

But you cannot always know that you have already existing predispositions for psychosis. 
If you have a sober awakening, or a "change in perception" or DP/DR, or no sense of self. Guess what: That's a big big predisposition for psychosis.

It's true that you can't always know that, but: in most cases, you actually do know about it. You don't just live a mentally sound life without any issues or salience whatsoever and then bam! suddenly you're psychotic because you've taken 3g of mushrooms. It doesn't work like that. If you have a predisposition for psychosis, you probably have something else too.

27 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

If you have a sober awakening, or a "change in perception" or DP/DR, or no sense of self. Guess what: That's a big big predisposition for psychosis.

Dude. No. I would agree with you on the dp/dr thing, but most certainly not on the rest. I have had all my awakenings spontaneously and while I was sober. This has nothing whatsoever to do with psychotic predispositions. 

31 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

Spiritual enlightenment is a predisposition for psychosis.

Seriously, how do you come up with this stuff? Do you even know what an actual psychosis is? The difference is that with spiritual awakening, you deconstruct your mind in a conscious way.

Spiritual enlightenment is not predisposition for psychosis. You really have to explain that one to me.

34 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

Being open minded enough to believe in spiritual enlightenment, may count as magical beliefs.

Wouldn't necessarily say so. Spiritual enlightenment has been known and recorded by humans for thousands of years. 

36 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

There's no way to know if you have a predisposition, it's most of the time only recognised in retrospect.

In most cases, there actually is. Because in most cases, you will have some sort of symptomatic which gives you a clue that there's something slightly off. If not that, someone in your family has had psychotic episodes. 

[Farnaby]

36 minutes ago, Endangered-EGO said:

or DP/DR,

As scary as dp/dr is, it is a common symptom of many anxiety disorders and not a sign of predisposition towards psychosis as far as I know. 

Yes it can happen in psychotic people too, but that doesn't mean it's a sign of psychosis. 

I agree though that if you're experiencing those kind of symptoms with any substance or activity in your life, it would be wise to slow down or quit until you feel more grounded. 

Psychedelics can make you unstable. People who say it has nothing to do with the substance are in denial IMO. Any strong experience has the potential to traumatize you, so it's always a good idea to tread carefully and try to get to a grounded state in your life so you feel at peace and stable before taking psychedelics. 

There is anecdotal reports of very unstable people who have hugely benefited from psychedelics, but it's indeed risky and I would personally leave it as a last resort in those cases.

[Tim R]

And I guess we'll just ignore that you approach completely lacks any nuance. "Don't take psychedelics, bad idea".

Really?