Your interpretation of the purpose of the ego?

[Leo Gura]

There's many different ways to teach or explain enlightenment. A lot of it has to do with how one learned about it himself, one's personal journey. And also one's cultural upbringing, which you can't really escape even with enlightenment.

This is also why religions and mystical traditions are so different. The Buddha was very clinical in his descriptions while other prophets were more poetic and flowery. There is also a choice as to which aspects of enlightenment to highlight and which to downplay.

Some people like to emphasize the Divine Love part. Some like the Absolute Truth part. Some like the God part. Some like the no-self part. Some like the freedom from suffering part. Etc.

[Emerald]

This is a belief, but it's a belief I hold nonetheless. In almost all religions 'God' is both omnipresent, infinite, and all-knowing. But how can an omnipresent force have knowledge of duality, separateness, and limitation without firsthand experience? So, it is my belief that because the unifying force must know all things, it has tricked itself into believing that it is a separate being called a person to know the experience of separateness and illusion. The ego is god tricking itself into believing that it is a human. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

It makes sense that nature has created the illusion of the ego. From an evolutionary perspective that is. Just for example think about surviving. If the ego-illusion did not exist, why should I run away from a tiger in the jungle?

[Simon Zackrisson]

12 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

It makes sense that nature has created the illusion of the ego. From an evolutionary perspective that is. Just for example think about surviving. If the ego-illusion did not exist, why should I run away from a tiger in the jungle?

Yes.

However I think it is important to reconcile the difference between cause and effect, and purpose.

I'm onboard with the belief of evolution and mechanisms for survival. 
I'm not so sure where I stand on purpose though.

What do you think about an objective purpose?

 

 

What is the purpose of running away from the tiger, why should you survive?

Inevitably, the sun will swallow the earth.

Edited February 8, 2016 by Simon Zackrisson

[Simon Zackrisson]

6 minutes ago, Makis said:

Animals don't have an ego but they run away from danger too. Don't mix up the ego with survival instincts, which are common to any life forms. Even an amoeba tries to avoid death. 

Yes, good addition my friend.

However, I would consider the Ego as an advanced mechanism for survival.

Not saying that it is the only instinct for this aspiration of being alive though.

[WaveInTheOcean]

Just now, Simon Zackrisson said:

Yes.

However I think it is important to reconcile the difference between cause and effect, and purpose.

I'm onboard with the belief of evolution and mechanisms for survival. 
I'm not so sure where I stand on purpose though.

What do you think about a objective purpose?

 

 

What is the purpose of running away from the tiger, why should you survive?

Inevitably, the sun will swallow the earth.

The ego-illusion is the illusion that the body and mind is just a 'vessel' for 'me' (the ego). ie. I exist inside my body. If my body dies, then "I" will keep on living in total darkness for the rest of the Universe. That's not a nice feeling. This is where religion comes into play. Religion says that "you" (The ego) will be teleported into heaven/Paradise if you've been a good person, or into hell, if you've been bad.

Anyway, I don't know what you mean with "objective purpose". There exists no such thing as an objective purpose in life.
The subjective purpose though is: Live life as you want. 

After all, life is just a theatre play - Nature taking on masks (ego's) and observing it self.

Animals also have the ego-illusion of course. They just don't think about like humans do.  

Yes, animals react only by instincts, but in the deepest sense, so do we as humans. We, as a species, have just developed a brain that is capable of thinking on a more complex level than other animals. But thinking, in its deepest sense, is also an instinct.

So the ego-illusion is wired together with the free will-illusion, naturally.

I think that in order for something to be truly consciousness, it has to have the illusion of having free will. 
I mean, all animals have the illusion of having free will. Of course they do. They just don't THINK about it, like we do.
We humans have the ability to think about ourselves. Most people have taken the bait and believe fully in this illusion of the ego and free will. They don't see these 'things' for what they truly are; illusions.

But computer-programmers... If they want to create a consciousness AI, they must find out how they can create algoritms that make the AI believe it has free will. Only then can we call the AI truly consciousness.

[WaveInTheOcean]

I mean on a everyday purpose everyone, including me, Leo, you etc. have the sensation that we are ego's with free will. Some people, like Leo, have just realised that this sensation is an illusion. But who have realised it? The ego it self.  So the illusion realises it's an illusion. That's deep, only humans are capable of this. (On this Earth at least ... let's see what technology in computer-programming brings).

[WaveInTheOcean]

1 hour ago, Makis said:

Animals don't have an ego but they run away from danger too. Don't mix up the ego with survival instincts, which are common to any life forms. Even an amoeba tries to avoid death. 

Animals, IMO, does have the sense of the ego. They just don't think about it. Human's property of advanced thoughts are also just survival instincts, though more complex than what we normally call instincts.  An amoebe tries to avoid death, yes, in the same way the Sun tries to create energy.

In order for something to be truly consciousness it must have the sense of being an ego. An agent with free will.

So yes, basically consciousness = sense of being an ego.

Ego-death (through meditation or psychedelics) doesn't strictly means that the ego dies, it just means that everything that creates your normal ego is destroyed (death). What is left is an unfluenced ego/consciousness that sees things/nature without a filter, seeing things for what they really are (that is yourself, the true ego (nature)). 

So when I look at a tree in the forest on a daily basis, I feel that I'm seeing the three. Such a beautiful tree
If I meditate while looking at it, however, I realize that what I am right now is the tree (and much more).
But still the "I" that realizes this a consciousness (an ego).

So being consciousness = sense of being an agent with free will (an ego).

So being consciousness is real, that's not an illusion. The sense of being an agent with free will (an ego) is real too, THE SENSE of it. However, to actually believe that the sense of being an agent with free will equals being an ego with free will.., now that's an illusion.

Ego-death is a strange phenonemen. I mean you are still consciousness when it happens, and the sense of being something is still there. I think you could say consciousness during ego-death equals the sense of being everything.

So to summarize.

being consciousness = sense of being something
Normally this equals the sense of being an ego.
During ego-death it equals the sense of being everything (nothing/reality/nature).

Edited February 8, 2016 by WaveInTheOcean

[Dangirdas]

Ego is good for your own survival and pleasure, but other than that it's just a blocker for enlightenment. We would not have been here today without ego, it's a necessity for our own good. But once you no longer have to struggle with the self esteem, love/belonging, safety and the physiological needs, that's when you can step away from your ego, for the "bigger" things. 

[crewlick]

Hi everyone!

I'm new here but "good friend" of Leo for almost a year now. For what I'm very very grateful:) But anyway I was just reading this topic and thought that I share my point of view on the ego.

Alan Watts said something that ego is like a radar on the ship - constantly looking for a "danger". Egoistic ego danger. I believe that so called "danger" is unique for everyone of us, conditioned throughout our childhood experience growing up in particular family, place, friends, neighbourhood and so on the list is probably neverending. So it's a "program" runs by earlier defined emotions. Emotions are fuelled by thoughts. Thoughts arise constantly and the more we are identified with them the stronger the ego and the stronger is the emotion which affects our actions. Obviously thoughts arise from nothingness so it is our choice then to align with them or just observe it as a part of reality, just like sound or feeling or bird flying by. 

The more I read about it and put it into practice the clearer it gets. I know it's very chaotic and simplified - and it's hard to put it all in just few words - but that's how I see it at this stage of my life.

Ps. It's nice to see others points of view because everyone gives different perspective and new insights and they all very interesting!

Cheers and have an nice day!

[Emerald]

13 hours ago, Pinocchio said:

The purpose of the ego is to prevent waking up. This may sound cynical but it's actually a legitimate purpose. Who says anyone is supposed to wake up at all? This is the dreamstate -- Life! -- and it "exists" strictly for its own sake, to be experienced in all its magnificence. Ego absolutely does serve this purpose rather well.

"Ego as a structure of confinement is an apt analogy - but slightly misleading; jails wall in, ego walls out. A minor distinction, perhaps, but a critical one. Whatever's 'out there' isn't holding us in - we're holding "it" out. We are our own keepers. We can open the door and walk out whenever we want. Of course, the thing one leaves isn't just the prison of self... but self itself. So the freedom thus won is something of a booby prize. Julie may rage against the fear that confines us in one email, and display a calm understanding and respect for it in the next. Fear looks like evil when you're trying to escape from it, but it looks very sensible and necessary when you're not. You can say fear and ignorance are bad, and that Maya is evil. But that's a low-level perspective. For this whole dualistic universe thing to work, it's important that everyone doesn't just go wandering off; that they stay on stage and play their role. Fear is the glue that holds the whole thing together and keeps everyone in character." -- Jed McKenna, Spiritually Incorrect Enlightenment

I agree. I think that for this reason, we can't assign more value to the enlightened state over the unenlightened state. Either way, we will serve the purpose we're meant to serve. However, it is my preference to experience enlightenment, so that too is valid. 

[WaveInTheOcean]

25 minutes ago, Makis said:

In order for something.... But this something is not really real, not really solid. It doesn't have a separate existence. The something you talk about is just an assumption. But when you really look for it you won't find it. It's constructed by the mind, it's fictitious. 

So you're saying that the consciousness that you are right now, is not real? Oh well, if that's not real, then the world is not real.

Look, I'm not saying anywhere that "something" has a separate existence.

"Something" could be anything, an animal or a robot.
An animal is real. An robot is real. You are real.

What's not real, yes, is the ego. That's an illusion.

I said that something, in order to be consciousness, must have the _SENSE_ of being an agent with free will.

Even the highest enlightened people in this world, still react when someone say their name. This means that their ego is still running. Also of course they constantly have the sense of having free will, although this sense is an illusion, of course.

[Dhana Choko]

22 minutes ago, WaveInTheOcean said:

So you're saying that the consciousness that you are right now, is not real? Oh well, if that's not real, then the world is not real

This is exactly the awareness that many come to.

[AngeArthur]

The ego is the best friend you ever had. The ego is just as a child whom has been miseducated through your life expecially through your childhood.

You just have the patience to rewrite his program into helping you taking the right decisions at the right moment, see what you need to see, touch what you need to touch, be where you need to be. and of course, you have to setup a goal. otherwise he is still by himself.

You setup the goal with you focus. When you focus on something you are telling your ego that is what is want, and he start working. he puts your eye on thing that can help you reach that goal, he walk you to place where you meet people that can help you, etc... 

And let be honest, the ego you can't know what to "fix" within you.

i define the ego as the unconscious part of ourselves.

You "CAN'T" reach enlightenment without work hand in hand with the ego  . You "HAVE" have to accept and work with every single part of you.

Edited February 8, 2016 by AngeArthur

[Ramu]

Ego is the false self that seeks to find itself through Form.  Ex:  if I had that brand new vw that would really complete me, those pants, those clothes, my girlfriend my house..look I went to Harvard I have a good degree now...all things in form the ego craves.  Once the ego gets these "things" it feels satisfied...for a little while..until it wants something else that will make it "happy".  Of course this is a fruitless pursuit looking to Form to make oneself happy and fullfilled and realized only by going within and realizing ones True Self is Formless.

[Ayla]

There is no such thing as false self. Everything is an expression of consciousness, even Ego. 

There exists no separation from Source. Even the most evil things human mind has ever conceived, are part of Source's expression 

 

[dystopia]

(I only read the title) My view on the ego is this:

Since we grow up with the realization that we are a seperate entity from other people and the world around us, we assume that whatever we do must be us. We learn by cause and effect: I did x and got y result therefore I must be x. You use that to build your reality, all the while unaware (which should become common knowledge) that you can create any reality you choose. It is the law of the universe that you can only see what you can confirm to be true, otherwise you would think you're crazy.

Most people go about their life according to established social codes and think that as long as they dont stand out and protect themselves, the same as everyone around them does, they'll be fine. People follow a pattern of development of conciousness & you usually have to be taught to succeed to the higher levels. I believe we are all born with a core personality and depending on how stubborn you are naturally, the more resistant you are to challenges to your established belief system. 

I think the goal is to ultimately be your best self. You don't need to change your core but work on bringing out the best parts to use for your advantage and also build optimism. Once your mind is open you need to learn to live and act from a place of love, never lack.