Jordan Peterson on bitcoin

[Philipp]

Oh lord this one is hard to swallow. Jordan Peterson with some decent question, but his guest are really down the far end, extreme levels of materialism, a omnipresent unconscious fear of the government, america style. There are a lot of things that I think are just blatantly wrong, especially in the fact that inflation is robbery. Doesn't the government use the money it prints for its expenditours, so it basicly it prints instead of taxing, which makes inflation a very flatly distributed tax over all in possession of money, probably taxing more the upper classes! Not sure, but they always make it sound like the poor get fucked by inflation and that sounds weird.

[Stovo]

On 10/08/2021 at 1:43 AM, Philipp said:

Oh lord this one is hard to swallow. Jordan Peterson with some decent question, but his guest are really down the far end, extreme levels of materialism, a omnipresent unconscious fear of the government, america style. There are a lot of things that I think are just blatantly wrong, especially in the fact that inflation is robbery. Doesn't the government use the money it prints for its expenditours, so it basicly it prints instead of taxing, which makes inflation a very flatly distributed tax over all in possession of money, probably taxing more the upper classes! Not sure, but they always make it sound like the poor get fucked by inflation and that sounds weird.

@Philipp Inflation is basically a tax yes, but these people are also the type of people who would say "tax is theft" too.  

It took me a long time to realise this, but the hardcore bitcoin believers are basically in a cult. Paradoxically I still believe in it as an investment, I just don't think it achieves the same thing as what the cultists believe. 

[Leo Gura]

The fundamental problem is that these Bitcoiners are mostly all libertarians who do not understand the importance and need for regulation. They believe that regulation is some kind of evil, but in fact you want strict regulation of your financial markets otherwise you get crazy instability and devilry. Any kind of libertarian system will breed serious devilry that will have to be dealt with somehow. But libertarians will just stick their head in the sand about this.

[whatishappeningtome]

If this video is to be trusted, more than 98% of all bitcoin held is for pure speculation and not to use as a real currency. 

 

[spaghetti11]

On 8/10/2021 at 2:43 AM, Philipp said:

which makes inflation a very flatly distributed tax over all in possession of money, probably taxing more the upper classes! Not sure, but they always make it sound like the poor get fucked by inflation and that sounds weird.

Just commenting on the quoted part of your post:

Inflation does affect the lower classes more than the upper classes. People with a lot of money don't keep their net worth in cash, they have assets. Assets increase in "value" with inflation, so their buying power stays similar.

Lower classes have most / all of their net worth in cash. With inflation, the prices in the supermarket / house prices etc will increase, but the people's wages don't increase (or at least not as much as inflation), therefore their buying power decreases.

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, whatishappeningtome said:

If this video is to be trusted, more than 98% of all bitcoin held is for pure speculation and not to use as a real currency.

Yeah, but that's true of "real currency" too. It's mostly just digits in some bank account and not used for anything.

That does not make it a scam. Its purpose is to store value.

What is the world's gold being used for? It's just sitting in a bank vault somewhere. That's not a bug, that's a feature.

[whatishappeningtome]

1 hour ago, Leo Gura said:

Yeah, but that's true of "real currency" too. It's mostly just digits in some bank account and not used for anything.

That does not make it a scam. Its purpose is to store value.

What is the world's gold being used for? It's just sitting in a bank vault somewhere. That's not a bug, that's a feature.

Lol true! My self-bias was thinking about my own bank account which is salary in, salary out lol 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Philipp probs BTC maxis. 
 

Bitcoin is one Cryptocurrency & use of blockchain. As Leo said it’s primary function is a store of value, and as we move deeper into the digital age & it becomes more & more mainstream that will become more apparent. 
 

however, don’t be so quick to judge all crypto under one brush, for example one I like called Veracity (VRA) is using blockchain & it’s Proof of View technology to attempt to fix the problem of fake views, fake accounts etc witg online advertising, YouTube & more. As well as being used to verify NFTs. There’s plenty of great use-cases outside of BTC. 
 

Id also look a little deeper into inflation, the reason it’s called the hidden tax is because lower tax brackets don’t rise with it, therefore you end up with less “real value” than before.
Hence the poor do get fucked more by inflation. 

This vid explains it- 

 

 

[Roy]

Until a huge amount of people start actually using it as a currency instead of just converting it to traditional money, it's basically just a pyramid scheme. Those who got in early are laughing, while if you've only heard about it since late 2017 you've already lost.

I'm not overly optimistic it will ever catch on to the degree some say it will, of course it will always be around. I just have a feeling we will be looking back years from now and saying "hey remember that annoying bitcoin fad and all those cringey marketers?"

The nature of the internet and modern marketing will always be way too unstable and speculative as a base for cryptocurrency to stabilize, in my opinion.

Why would anybody put a significant amount of their net worth in something that could lose a quarter of it's value overnight from an Elon Musk tweet? Forgive my language, but that's retarded.

[LfcCharlie4]

@Roy Do you class Gold as a pyramid scheme then? 
 

Even if you bought in 2017 you’ve 2x your money. More & more institutions are also getting heavily involved, Fidelity even predicts $1M+ per BTC by 2030 lmao. 
 

Ignore Crypto if you want, but you’re just missing out on the fastest growing asset class around. 
 

Also if you learn about cycles & the 4 year halvings & how alts follow 3-4 weeks after, you can’t time the top or bottom, but you can protect yourself from the inevitable 50-80% crash at the end of cycle 
 

 

[Leo Gura]

5 hours ago, Roy said:

it's basically just a pyramid scheme.

But that's true of all currencies.

The amazing thing is that currencies work at all. They really shouldn't. It sounds too insane to work. And yet it does.

[Roy]

6 hours ago, LfcCharlie4 said:

Fidelity even predicts $1M+ per BTC by 2030 lmao. 

You're laughing and sharing a sense of excitement about it, while in your very statement you use the language of BTC is going to be worth $1 million! Which implies you don't really care about the bitcoin intrinsically, but the fiat you could trade it for. Of course that's nice if you made a profit from an investment, nothing wrong with that. Well actually there is in some cases but I won't get into that here because you'll probably get defensive, looks like you've got the bug, regardless...

I'm interested in this whole thing, don't get me wrong. I'm just not hopeful in it's stability. Do you think it will even be relevant by 2030? As in it will make more sense to purchase things in daily life like gas or groceries, or put a down payment on a house with cryptocurrency?

[Stovo]

On 9/11/2021 at 4:42 AM, Leo Gura said:

The fundamental problem is that these Bitcoiners are mostly all libertarians who do not understand the importance and need for regulation. They believe that regulation is some kind of evil, but in fact you want strict regulation of your financial markets otherwise you get crazy instability and devilry. Any kind of libertarian system will breed serious devilry that will have to be dealt with somehow. But libertarians will just stick their head in the sand about this.

I agree with this. My base case scenario is that bitcoin will become some sort of store of value, but won't change the world into a libertarian paradise as most bitcoiners believe. 

19 hours ago, Roy said:

I'm interested in this whole thing, don't get me wrong. I'm just not hopeful in it's stability. Do you think it will even be relevant by 2030? As in it will make more sense to purchase things in daily life like gas or groceries, or put a down payment on a house with cryptocurrency?

By 2030 you might be buying property on the blockchain  Perhaps you'll be using Ethereum to do that, or the estate agent will. 

[LfcCharlie4]

@Roy  Right now, of course it is smarter to 'Trade BTC back to fiat' in the short term (at the end of 4 year cycles) because if you know after each 4 year cycle you're going to get a 50-80% correction, why wouldn't you? As the Market Cap grows, volatility will decrease, but right now that is the case, so is it not best to prepare accordingly, as then you can 'Stack your Satoshis' meaning you end up with more BTC, that's my long-term goal based on the people I follow etc. 

Yes, but the technology goes far beyond becoming a means of exchange. Like @Stovo said, Smart Contracts will allow you to complete transactions such as buying a property etc seamlessly, while reducing middle men & as a result cutting fees. However, whether BTC will act as more of a store of value than a means of exchange, or whether it will always be the No.1 crypto is a topic for another day, but for now, the market (for the most part) is dependent on BTC. 

https://www.investopedia.com/terms/s/smart-contracts.asp

DeFi (Decentralized Finance) is essentially an area of Crypto trying to fair the playing field in the world of finance, which as we all know is beyond corrupt as well as making it more accessible. Think Insurance, Savings, Loans, Trading etc, this is a decent article on it- https://blog.coinbase.com/a-beginners-guide-to-decentralized-finance-defi-574c68ff43c4

Then you have NFTs, which again goes beyond the whole JPEG bonanza we are seeing right now. Think having Proof of copyright on Artworks, creative projects and even releasing unique shit that there's only 10 copies of in the whole world. Like a musician making a special album, and only selling 1000 copies globally through the use of NFTs. 

Another use case is Gaming, where the model basically reverses the whole pay to pay, to getting paid to play, an example of this is Axie Infinity, and then you even have all the metaverse speculation, think the film 'Ready Player One.' 

I could go on & on, but imo (some people feel differently) Crypto & blockchain goes FAR beyond just Bitcoin and its real world applications and use cases are almost endless, hence why I'm so excited by this space. 

Also, of course growing your investments is part of the fun, whenever you invest in an asset, company or person, isn't that one of the foundational goals? Of course, if you were profiting from something you don't support or agree with that's another matter, but there's plenty of Crypto projects that genuinely want to better the world in their own, unique way. I mean Satoshi's original vision was just that if you read the BTC white paper & projects like Bitcoin Cash are aiming to also help as they grow- https://whybitcoincash.com/

 

My recommendation is always to research and only invest in projects that resonate with you & what you believe in. Hence, why lots of people don't want to go near XRP, or some don't believe in the mission of X crypto etc. 

 

Also, who knows maybe the $ value won't matter down the line... 

 

[Heinrich Faust]

On 11.9.2021 at 10:51 PM, Leo Gura said:

The amazing thing is that currencies work at all. They really shouldn't. It sounds too insane to work. And yet it does.

Does the same go for gold? It kind of has a practical worth, even though a quite limited one.

[Leo Gura]

6 hours ago, Heinrich Faust said:

Does the same go for gold? It kind of has a practical worth, even though a quite limited one.

Of course that too is amazing -- how gold became so standardized -- but paper currency is even more amazing. It's double-amazing.

[Philipp]

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