If enlightenment is the truth, then why is it so damn difficult to get enlightened?

[James12345]

28 minutes ago, Goldzilla said:

First was THOUGHT. 

??‍♂️There is no such a thing as thought. 

1 hour ago, WelcometoReality said:

The thinker is a thought and after realizing the absolute the belief that one is the thinker falls away. 

Definitely. And realize that thinker was never existed or not existed. Because being exist and not exist has never happened. 

1 hour ago, WelcometoReality said:

Thought begin to recontextualize when realization happens wouldn't you say?

No. Because, when realization happens that there is no such a thing as thought, so called life and before birth gets mixed. I (what is an I?) Really have no idea what is this, I, conversation, even having no ideas, language, world, birth as before so called life. You can call it living in before so called birth, but it is not even living. It is not knowing, including the word of not knowing. No words for it, because there is no such a thing as word. There is no differences between sleep and being awake, life and death. Before birth or birth. All same. Now is mixed with before so called birth and after death. All same. Nothing will be changed, because it is all there is. Which is just being. 

[Carl-Richard]

4 hours ago, Goldzilla said:

There is an organ in the human body wich has literally nothingness in it, it has Vacuum space. And that is the pineal gland, being the reason one can experience literally nothing, beyond thing. Wich is thought. 

[Citation needed]

[The0Self]

17 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

At the deepest levels there is only you.  And so thus you grasp non-duality.   Because you are God.  

Problem is, how this really is, cannot be known or even described, simply because it’s undivided and absolute and without parts. Because of that, any reification of any part of it when conversing with seekers might serve as a roadblock to enlightenment. Any description of the end point is not to be taken as the truth, since the end point is only when anything and everything is unlearned anyway.

With that said, I find there are much less limiting (and more accurate) descriptions than “you are God.” “There is no separation” is truest, yet farthest away from an individual’s experience. What is the essential true aspect of “I am God” ? From the enlightened state, it might be found that it is “this appearance is unconditioned/uncaused and there is no other.” There are God mind experiences but even that is something one could self inquire from — they basically are side effects of the revealing of the infinite nature of the story and how there is simply nothing but everything. So I am God not only isn’t basic enough, it’s ironically not descriptive enough either. Totally just an interpretation — the phrase I am God and also my whole comment.

The story itself is simply not separate from absolutely all there is — which can be no surprise at all when it’s seen that the story has no limit. This is a misleading story if taken as true like “I am God” too, but it’s like all-that-is is just an unconditioned infinite singularity, its manifestation is everything, and all apparent relative notions have the exact same status in terms of inherent meaning and purpose — none. And you can find no edge (separation), so certainly have no basis for claiming lack. All appearance can act as tools in the empty concoction of the story and aliveness. And at one level, awareness is essentially an apparent tool and nothing more... i.e. I had a life and I was aware of it, therefore sitting at a computer makes sense and is meaningful and it’s much more than just a bunch of uninterpretable data. The awareness (in the story) is shared by everyone — that is a relative truth, but it is deep in the story, and I find this is on the same level as I am God.

?? 

Edited August 11, 2021 by The0Self

[WelcometoReality]

15 hours ago, James12345 said:

No. Because, when realization happens that there is no such a thing as thought, so called life and before birth gets mixed. I (what is an I?) Really have no idea what is this, I, conversation, even having no ideas, language, world, birth as before so called life. You can call it living in before so called birth, but it is not even living. It is not knowing, including the word of not knowing. No words for it, because there is no such a thing as word. There is no differences between sleep and being awake, life and death. Before birth or birth. All same. Now is mixed with before so called birth and after death. All same. Nothing will be changed, because it is all there is. Which is just being. 

Ant then the fascination of that fades away because what has changed. What is there to say about that. Life goes on as usual yet it's magical and ordinary at the same time.

Edited August 11, 2021 by WelcometoReality

[Inliytened1]

8 hours ago, The0Self said:

Problem is, how this really is, cannot be known or even described, simply because it’s undivided and absolute and without parts. Because of that, any reification of any part of it when conversing with seekers might serve as a roadblock to enlightenment. Any description of the end point is not to be taken as the truth, since the end point is only when anything and everything is unlearned anyway.

With that said, I find there are much less limiting (and more accurate) descriptions than “you are God.” “There is no separation” is truest, yet farthest away from an individual’s experience. What is the essential true aspect of “I am God” ? From the enlightened state, it might be found that it is “this appearance is unconditioned/uncaused and there is no other.” There are God mind experiences but even that is something one could self inquire from — they basically are side effects of the revealing of the infinite nature of the story and how there is simply nothing but everything. So I am God not only isn’t basic enough, it’s ironically not descriptive enough either. Totally just an interpretation — the phrase I am God and also my whole comment.

The story itself is simply not separate from absolutely all there is — which can be no surprise at all when it’s seen that the story has no limit. This is a misleading story if taken as true like “I am God” too, but it’s like all-that-is is just an unconditioned infinite singularity, its manifestation is everything, and all apparent relative notions have the exact same status in terms of inherent meaning and purpose — none. And you can find no edge (separation), so certainly have no basis for claiming lack. All appearance can act as tools in the empty concoction of the story and aliveness. And at one level, awareness is essentially an apparent tool and nothing more... i.e. I had a life and I was aware of it, therefore sitting at a computer makes sense and is meaningful and it’s much more than just a bunch of uninterpretable data. The awareness (in the story) is shared by everyone — that is a relative truth, but it is deep in the story, and I find this is on the same level as I am God.

?? 

Well said..yes I am just pointing out that everything is being imagined by you as God.  Even that other people are more spiritually gifted or have gone through multiple lives.  That's something you as God are imagining. You are simply dreaming this entire reality and everything in it.  Including yourself as a human and all other people.  So it's a mind fuck.    But you can say within the context of the dream that is all true..I was simply pointing to the meta level  feel free to disagree this is just what I have become conscious of.  Maybe you guys are sick of hearing about the meta level though ?

[allislove]

On 8/9/2021 at 5:14 PM, Blackhawk said:

I feel that if enlightenment is the truth, then it shouldn't be so damn difficult to get enlightened.

Is there anything else except Truth?

I know there's some teachers who say: "it's not difficult, it's the most simple and obvious thing". But no it's not. It seems to be impossible to attain.

Yep, impossible to acquire, it's a self realization.

I think that maybe 1 or 2 of you who reply are enlightened.

Not two definitely  

But probably none of you are enlightened, if enlightenment even exists.

Existence and enlightenment are synonyms in some sense. 

Before even Leo said that he isn't enlightened, but I don't know if he has recently became enlightened.

Is this really important if Leo is enlightened? Focus on your feelings.     

Especially for me it should be easy to attain because I wouldn't mind dying.

Deep dive into investigating the direct experience "where is this me that wouldn't mind dying".

I have nothing to live for. I'm already done with this life.

Isn't this "I" that claims to have some opinion on live just a thinking? To have an opinion there should be existence, direct the attention to it.

Some of you will say: "you have to spend billions of hours of hard work to achieve it".

There's several problems with that.

1. I don't have the energy for that.

2. I don't have the time for that.

3. I hate doing it.

4. I don't have the discipline for it.

5. I don't want to waste so much effort into something which might not even be true.

6. Psychedelics fucks up my psyche. They make me experience absolutely horrific things which traumatize me for years or possibly for life. I only get bad trips from everything. Even from weed I get bad "trips". I risk getting permanently mentally ill from psychedelics.

These are the limiting beliefs to let go off, to lessen the suffering. Daily.Hour-long.DeepBreath.Morning.Meditation. 

 

[James12345]

1 hour ago, WelcometoReality said:

Ant then the fascination of that fades away because what has changed. What is there to say about that. Life goes on as usual yet it's magical and ordinary at the same time.

Mind can not comprehend that this is not life. This is before birth. You have never moved nor began. 

[WelcometoReality]

@James12345 The 8th oxherding picture

And the 10th oxherding picture

[James12345]

12 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

@James12345 The 8th oxherding picture

And the 10th oxherding picture

Of course , in these pictures so called enlightened people seems like , i am enlightened and returned to society and talking to people now.  But for me , there is no me nor universe nor these are sentences. These pictures represents the “acting”, “behaviors”, “external looks” from the side of naming and labeling, which is the interpretation of so called enlightened people. But not the enlightened mind, which is no such a thing as mind nor me nor universe.

[Goldzilla]

17 hours ago, James12345 said:

??‍♂️There is no such a thing as thought. 

Yes there is. 

If you can't pinpoint a thought, does not mean it doesn't exist. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Goldzilla

[WelcometoReality]

27 minutes ago, James12345 said:

Of course , in these pictures so called enlightened people seems like , i am enlightened and returned to society and talking to people now.  But for me , there is no me nor universe nor these are sentences. These pictures represents the “acting”, “behaviors”, “external looks” from the side of naming and labeling, which is the interpretation of so called enlightened people. But not the enlightened mind, which is no such a thing as mind nor me nor universe.

To me the 10th picture represents seeing everythings enlightened nature. Love, compassion, humbleness and ordinariness. Not about being more enlightened or better or "external looks".

[The0Self]

53 minutes ago, Goldzilla said:

Yes there is. 

If you can't pinpoint a thought, does not mean it doesn't exist. 

He does not mean what you consider to be thought. For him, thought = duality or separation or inherent existence, which is indeed completely illusory.

[Inliytened1]

1 hour ago, James12345 said:

But not the enlightened mind, which is no such a thing as mind nor me nor universe.

No mind (meaning no ego mind)  and infinite Mind are the same.  So there is really no argument here...we are talking about the same thing..Pure Being.  There are no thoughts happening there, only Being.   

[The0Self]

3 hours ago, Inliytened1 said:

Well said..yes I am just pointing out that everything is being imagined by you as God.  Even that other people are more spiritually gifted or have gone through multiple lives.  That's something you as God are imagining. You are simply dreaming this entire reality and everything in it.  Including yourself as a human and all other people.  So it's a mind fuck.    But you can say within the context of the dream that is all true..I was simply pointing to the meta level  feel free to disagree this is just what I have become conscious of.  Maybe you guys are sick of hearing about the meta level though ?

Yeah we say the same essentially, at least in some sense. What you call imagination I was calling story. Everything is imagination; everything is story. 

Edited August 11, 2021 by The0Self

[James12345]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

No mind (meaning no ego mind)  and infinite Mind are the same.  So there is really no argument here...we are talking about the same thing..Pure Being.  There are no thoughts happening there, only Being.   

If there is no mind, how do you know what is infinite?

24 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

To me the 10th picture represents seeing everythings enlightened nature. Love, compassion, humbleness and ordinariness. Not about being more enlightened or better or "external looks".

Definitely. Because what you described here is a personal opinion, as the pictures. And whatever feels best for you just follow that, it really doesn’t really matter, you are already what you are. Whatever i am saying just the truth thats it. It seems like trying to say i am more enlightened than you, no definitely not. But the expectations of ego comes with the perspective of the expecter. If ego doesn’t hear that whatever it doesn’t believe in it, it can not accept it. Meanwhile, enlightenment has nothing to do with thinking or expecting or personal opinion. Just absolute truth thats it and it is you.

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, James12345 said:

If there is no mind, how do you know what is infinite?

 

You don't know it you ARE it.

[Inliytened1]

20 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Yeah we say the same essentially, at least in some sense. What you call imagination I was calling story. Everything is imagination; everything is story. 

And we sure love being in the story don't we

 

[James12345]

10 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You don't know it you ARE it.

No. Infinite comes with learning and experiencing. Enlightenment has nothing to do with learning or experiencing. When you be you cant even say I, forget about i am infinite, anything you named and labeled comes from the mind. 

[WelcometoReality]

19 minutes ago, James12345 said:

Definitely. Because what you described here is a personal opinion, as the pictures. And whatever feels best for you just follow that, it really doesn’t really matter, you are already what you are. Whatever i am saying just the truth thats it. It seems like trying to say i am more enlightened than you, no definitely not. But the expectations of ego comes with the perspective of the expecter. If ego doesn’t hear that whatever it doesn’t believe in it, it can not accept it.

Everything we say is just a limited perspective. No matter how well we express it or whether we think it's a personal opinion or the truth.

22 minutes ago, James12345 said:

Meanwhile, enlightenment has nothing to do with thinking or expecting or personal opinion. Just absolute truth thats it and it is you.

Realizing the absolute is not enlightenment but it's a start.

[The0Self]

6 minutes ago, WelcometoReality said:

Realizing the absolute is not enlightenment but it's a start.

It's not? It is if it's associated with the collapse of the present/absent duality.