If enlightenment is the truth, then why is it so damn difficult to get enlightened?

[Flyboy]

5 hours ago, Blackhawk said:

I feel that if enlightenment is the truth, then it shouldn't be so damn difficult to achieve.

I know there's some teachers who say: "it's not difficult, it's the most simple and obvious thing". But no it's not. It seems to be impossible to attain. I think that maybe 1 or 2 of you who reply are enlightened. But probably none of you are enlightened, if enlightenment even exists. Before even Leo said that he isn't enlightened, but I don't know if he has recently became enlightened.

Especially for me it should be easy to attain because I wouldn't mind dying. I have nothing to live for. I'm already done with this life.

Some of you will say: "you have to spend billions of hours of hard work to achieve it".

There's several problems with that.

1. I don't have the energy for that.

2. I don't have the time for that.

3. I hate doing it.

4. I don't have the discipline for it.

5. I don't want to waste so much effort into something which might not even be true.

6. Psychedelics fucks up my psyche. They make me experience absolutely horrific things which traumatize me for years or possibly for life. I only get bad trips from everything. Even from weed I get bad "trips". I risk getting permanently mentally ill from psychedelics.

You sound like you have a very strong / solidified ego, with lots of splits and separation built-in.  Lots of victim thinking, lots of shadows, lots of anger and feelings of "me-ness", and a lack of connection to your heart.  I say this very directly only because this was also me.  There is a way out, but it will require a deep desire to stop suffering and to open your heart.

The way life works, it may be that you simply need to suffer enough that this desire forms.  However your path unfolds, I hope you are able to get to a better place.  If you have the capacity for being brutally honest with yourself, I'd really recommend integrating your shadows before going any farther with anything else.  You gotta cut the anchors before you can set sail!  Existential Kink is an interesting book for getting started with that.

[Breakingthewall]

@Blackhawk You say things like it is impossible to stop the desire, I am afraid of psychedelics. what you need is not courage, but understanding. first to really understand what the ego is, how deep it goes, and then to understand that you are one step away from death. there is no courage because there is nothing to risk. security is an illusion. You are floating in the void and death is a millimeter away from you. Enlightenment is not a bold and ambitious goal, it is the most practical option. let go of everything because that everything is nothing. but really, it's nothing

[Blackhawk]

10 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

@Blackhawk You say things like it is impossible to stop the desire, I am afraid of psychedelics. what you need is not courage, but understanding. first to really understand what the ego is, how deep it goes, and then to understand that you are one step away from death. there is no courage because there is nothing to risk. security is an illusion. You are floating in the void and death is a millimeter away from you. Enlightenment is not a bold and ambitious goal, it is the most practical option. let go of everything because that everything is nothing. but really, it's nothing

Well, give me the understanding and death and all that stuff then. Or how do I get it?

[Breakingthewall]

32 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Well, give me the understanding and death and all that stuff then. Or how do I get it?

well, the first ingredient is  desperation. you have to realize that you are in a trap. this is a bad business. now fight, then decay, sickness, and then death. a nefarious plan. You have nothing to loose. once you see this clearly, that you are a rat on the wheel running without moving, taking your human spirit from looking for a solution where it seems impossible to find it. with the passion of the desperate who fights for his life, of the prisoner making a hole to escape from Alcatraz by jumping into the water with nothing to lose. in this you have to use all your intelligence. there are thousands of traps in between, thousands of exits that are not. Once you have despair, intelligence, passion and determination, you also have to have love for life, for the truth, for the beauty that is found in everything that exists. this may be hidden but it may appear as soon as you dig a little deeper. Once you start, your reality will expand, beyond any expectation, and I believe that once we have reached this point , things are more or less rolled, it is no longer need but passion for life, fun, pleasure, no expectations. Maybe sounds complicated but i think it's the only reasonable way to go

Edited August 9, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[snowyowl]

@Blackhawk  Hi, I've suggested in other threads that you do some specialised therapy which may help in the non-spiritual areas of life, but you seem to be resistant to establishing any regular practice, whether spiritual or therapeutic. You say things like this:  

"1. I don't have the energy for that.
2. I don't have the time for that.
3. I hate doing it.
4. I don't have the discipline for it.
5. I don't want to waste so much effort into something which might not even be true."

The areas of enlightenment and therapy are basically experiential so you gotta put in some work and effort to achieve any sort of change in your consciousness. Many spiritual people spend years practicing without achieving a full enlightenment, but what keeps them going is lower level experiences like peacefulness, bliss, insights, nondual / mystical glimpses etc. You've been into this stuff for some time now. What practices have you tried, and have you had any limited success so far?  

Edited August 9, 2021 by snowyowl

[Moksha]

Enlightenment isn't an achievement. It is a realization, and it happens when you are ripe enough to let go of the tree of transience, and fall into yourself. Until then, don't hang your happiness on it. Simply learn to be present. Take joy in this moment, and then learn to connect one moment to the next, until it is a continuous state of presence.

Have you ever had a profound moment of pure being, completely free from thought, like when observing a sunset, or standing on the pinnacle of a mountain, or losing yourself in the ocean crashing against the shore?

Each awakening moment is like that, but turned inward. Thoughts and emotions come and go, but they are seen from 10,000 feet, and you no longer identify with them. Instead, you simply resonate in the being that you are.

In the light of Consciousness, boundaries between yourself and everything else begin to dissolve. It is healing, it is liberating, and it is the realization of unconditional love.

[taotemu]

@Blackhawk  You just need to stop.  You are running around in circles with your mind.  You just don't seem to get it.  Enlightenment isn't an achievement.  It isn't some altered state.  It isn't some better version of your egoic self.  You are a fish in the ocean looking for water.  It is insanity.

You would literally be better off doing anything but trying to get enlightened.  Your mind is like concrete.  There is no flexibility, no ability to stop and listen, no openness to consider all the wisdom being shared your way.  Engineering is probably the best career choice for you.  Tangible results using empirical science and technology. 

[Blackhawk]

@Breakingthewall I see..

@snowyowl Hi.

I have meditated, contemplated, educated myself with the theoretical stuff, tried psychedelics one time, done self-inquiry, I also tried kriya yoga a bit.

I have experienced horrific things, both on the one trip and many times sober. One time it was a blissful experience. But I think they were probably just delusions.

[Blackhawk]

@Moksha Okay thanks.

26 minutes ago, taotemu said:

@Blackhawk  You just need to stop.  You are running around in circles with your mind.  You just don't seem to get it.  Enlightenment isn't an achievement.  It isn't some altered state.  It isn't some better version of your egoic self.  You are a fish in the ocean looking for water.  It is insanity.

You would literally be better off doing anything but trying to get enlightened.  Your mind is like concrete.  There is no flexibility, no ability to stop and listen, no openness to consider all the wisdom being shared your way.  Engineering is probably the best career choice for you.  Tangible results using empirical science and technology. 

What other word than achievement should I use then?

Clearly enlightenment must be something which happens to this body/mind. Even just disidentification with this body/mind would be something that happens to this body/mind, or "death" of the separate self.

Yes I understand that enlightenment isn't a better version of my egoic self, but again, obviously enlightenment should cause something for this body/mind, even if it's just a disidentification or end of a separate self.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Carl-Richard]

Because Truth goes against all of your survival instincts.

[Blackhawk]

20 minutes ago, taotemu said:

@Blackhawk  You just need to stop.  You are running around in circles with your mind.  You just don't seem to get it.  Enlightenment isn't an achievement.  It isn't some altered state.  It isn't some better version of your egoic self.  You are a fish in the ocean looking for water.  It is insanity.

You would literally be better off doing anything but trying to get enlightened.  Your mind is like concrete.  There is no flexibility, no ability to stop and listen, no openness to consider all the wisdom being shared your way.  Engineering is probably the best career choice for you.  Tangible results using empirical science and technology. 

I just changed the title to: "If enlightenment is the truth, then why is it so damn difficult to happen?"

Are you happy now? Can you all stop obsessing about the words achieve/attain now?

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

Because Truth goes against all of your survival instincts.

My thoughts immediately goes to physical suicide again. It's weird that not more seekers committ suicide thanks to all this constant talk about death, beyond survival, etc.

[Blackhawk]

28 minutes ago, taotemu said:

@Blackhawk  You just need to stop.  You are running around in circles with your mind.  You just don't seem to get it.  Enlightenment isn't an achievement.  It isn't some altered state.  It isn't some better version of your egoic self.  You are a fish in the ocean looking for water.  It is insanity.

I already know all that. I just want something to happen, anything, make it happen, anyone, in any way.

How difficult is it to understand?

[taotemu]

1 minute ago, Blackhawk said:

I just changed the title to: "If enlightenment is the truth, then why is it so damn difficult to happen?"

Are you happy now? Can you all stop obsessing about the words achieve/attain now?

My thoughts immediately goes to physical suicide again. It's weird that not more seekers committ suicide thanks to all this constant talk about death, beyond survival, etc.

It is pretty clear your ideas of enlightenment are the problem.  Suicide won't do it.  If you are serious about suicide please contact 1-800-273-8255.  https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

 

[Blackhawk]

Just now, taotemu said:

It is pretty clear your ideas of enlightenment are the problem.  Suicide won't do it.  If you are serious about suicide please contact 1-800-273-8255.  https://suicidepreventionlifeline.org/

I don't have any fucking ideas of enlightenment. I don't know anything whatsoever.

[taotemu]

1 minute ago, Blackhawk said:

I already know all that. I just want something to happen, anything, make it happen, anyone, in any way.

How difficult is it to understand?

Stuff is happening all the time.  Go to a park and watch the birds.  If you can do this with a calm clear mind you are FAR closer to enlightenment than chatting here, taking psychedelics or meditating.  You mind is in a storm. 

[Carl-Richard]

22 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

My thoughts immediately goes to physical suicide again. It's weird that not more seekers committ suicide thanks to all this constant talk about death, beyond survival, etc.

Suicide is not the answer, because that is yet another survival drive masking itself as an "ultimate solution for everything". A solution for what exactly?: Well, only the fullfillment of another survival need. You have to give up the thing that is driving you towards suicidal thoughts. Only the ego wants an ultimate solution. Enlightenment doesn't come as a result of turning away from life. It comes from gradually acing life and going beyond it. Look at Sadhguru's life before awakening at 25. He was running multiple successful businesses. Suicide was the last thing on his mind at that moment. His being was simply ready to evolve to the next level, and all of it was several lifetimes in the making.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Blackhawk]

1 minute ago, taotemu said:

Stuff is happening all the time.  Go to a park and watch the birds.  If you can do this with a calm clear mind you are FAR closer to enlightenment than chatting here, taking psychedelics or meditating.  You mind is in a storm. 

Going to a park and watch birds with a calm and clear mind will totally cause enlightenment. Not.

[taotemu]

1 minute ago, Blackhawk said:

I don't have any fucking ideas of enlightenment. I don't know anything whatsoever.

This is the clearest statement you have made on this tread.  No, you have no idea and you don't know anything whatsoever.  By the way, neither do I.  But I'm not bothered by it.  The Earth continues to spin and I have nothing to do with it.  Life is a gift. 

[taotemu]

2 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

Going to a park and watch birds with a calm and clear mind will totally cause enlightenment. Not.

LOL!  There it is.  You STILL think enlightenment is an achievement.  Good luck to you.  I hope you find what you are looking for.

[snowyowl]

@Blackhawk  your health and wellbeing is the important thing, not enlightenment. If you're getting suicidal thoughts and horrific experiences then I'd suggest packing in the spirituality and getting professional help.