Why People Don't Like Uncompromising Non-Duality

[OneIntoOne]

To the point.

[Consilience]

“I don’t like it” because it doesn’t represent “my” path at all, so there’s an immediate recognition of its limitations relative to “my” path. It’s very unhelpful, un-precise, and easily co-opted by the ego towards reifying a ‘no self’ self image and spiritual bypassing. The possibility for self deception via uncompromising non-duality is huge. 
 

Hopefully it provides genuine help for some, given the popularity of these types of channels.

[Raptorsin7]

I actually had a 1-1 conversation with her, she seemed like a nice person.

I echo what @Consilience wrote above. There's so much left out in these kinds of teachings.

Fundamentally people seek spirtual teachers/teachings because of the dissatisfaction with their own experience, and these kinds of uncompromising messages don't really address the seekers dilemma well 

[The0Self]

It can be fun but it can also mislead people into thinking there’s nothing to do. Not the speakers’ fault though. Nothing is happening. No one knows that, but the only thing that experiences things happening in spacetime is an illusion. If it’s recognized that experience is an illusion, it’s not possible to imagine its reality. The talks are not about some event that actually happens in time. There can be energetic effects from various practices that make the lack of separation glaringly obvious, but even that is not required for what they’re talking about in these talks — that “event” quite literally does not happen (as the speakers even say over and over).

Basically it is set up, both unintentionally and apparently, that the message comes literally out of nothing. And is nothing. Exposure to this phenomenon can seem to be associated with varying effects in people, but it’s not intended as a spiritual practice — and as far as spiritual practices go, if this were indeed to be used as one (and it can), it would be a very inefficient method to awaken indeed.

Again it is not intended that the message be used in that way, by virtue of the message being the message and nothing more.

Edited August 9, 2021 by The0Self

[OneIntoOne]

She seemed to have a good understanding on what is going on.

But, she could be fooling everyone. IDK.

Its just the raw energy i'm feeling 

[OneIntoOne]

1 hour ago, The0Self said:

It can be fun but it can also mislead people into thinking there’s nothing to do. 

@The0Self

From an absolute perspective there is nothing to do. and thats where she talks from.  

[The0Self]

@OneIntoOne Hence the rest of my response

And not that there’s anyone that could not do something.

Edited August 9, 2021 by The0Self

[Consilience]

@Raptorsin7 @The0Self @OneIntoOne

So yeah that’s the thing! She seems to be speaking from experience and the message is extremely on point from a very raw, unfiltered, and authentic point of view. But for me, I can only recognize it after shitloads of relative practices, such as rigorous mindfulness, self inquiry, tripping, etc. Early on during my heavy seeking period, this stuff just never clicked. And I actually for a period observed myself creating a conceptual no-self self because of listening to more direct teachings like these, which was a very tricky beast to see through. 

[Consilience]

12 hours ago, The0Self said:

It can be fun but it can also mislead people into thinking there’s nothing to do. Not the speakers’ fault though. Nothing is happening. No one knows that, but the only thing that experiences things happening in spacetime is an illusion. If it’s recognized that experience is an illusion, it’s not possible to imagine its reality. The talks are not about some event that actually happens in time. There can be energetic effects from various practices that make the lack of separation glaringly obvious, but even that is not required for what they’re talking about in these talks — that “event” quite literally does not happen (as the speakers even say over and over).

Basically it is set up, both unintentionally and apparently, that the message comes literally out of nothing. And is nothing. Exposure to this phenomenon can seem to be associated with varying effects in people, but it’s not intended as a spiritual practice — and as far as spiritual practices go, if this were indeed to be used as one (and it can), it would be a very inefficient method to awaken indeed.

Again it is not intended that the message be used in that way, by virtue of the message being the message and nothing more.

Took me a few reads but das it mayne ??

[OneIntoOne]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

Took me a few reads but das it mayne ??

@Consilience

Same here LOL and thats why i replied how i replied. I totally misunderstood him...

[OneIntoOne]

1 hour ago, Consilience said:

 

So yeah that’s the thing! She seems to be speaking from experience and the message is extremely on point from a very raw, unfiltered, and authentic point of view. But for me, I can only recognize it after shitloads of relative practices, such as rigorous mindfulness, self inquiry, tripping, etc. Early on during my heavy seeking period, this stuff just never clicked. And I actually for a period observed myself creating a conceptual no-self self because of listening to more direct teachings like these, which was a very tricky beast to see through. 

@Consilience

When do you know when its real no-self and do you know when its NOT real no-self?

 

(btw she mentions in other videos she 'did it' the same way, by listening non stop to non dual teachers)

[mandyjw]

Awareness isn't something you do. 

[Consilience]

10 hours ago, OneIntoOne said:

@Consilience

When do you know when its real no-self and do you know when its NOT real no-self?

 

(btw she mentions in other videos she 'did it' the same way, by listening non stop to non dual teachers)

When you are conscious of that which is not time, not space, not perception, that is no self. That is the self. It is literally not everything yet is the context out of which everything arises out of and passes into, and therefore is inextricably connected to everything, and due to the nature of such a unified inextricability, IS everything.

For me, id recommend being able to reliably access deep states of formlessness, and letting it guide you into the absolute, which is qualitatively different than formlessness, yet is infinite nothing. It is more formless than formless states. 
 

Confusing these formless states + unconsciously reifying these types of ‘unrelenting non-duality’ talks = conceptual no self. Can happen even without the access to formless states of consciousness, as with what happened in my case. 
 

All this to say, THIS *is* it, but god damn is IT subtle and no easy feat to truly grasp. But hey, the only time become enlightened is right now so go for it ?

Edited August 10, 2021 by Consilience

[VeganAwake]

@OneIntoOne she is good and absolutely awakened. ?

[OneIntoOne]

14 hours ago, Consilience said:

When you are conscious of that which is not time, not space, not perception, that is no self. That is the self. It is literally not everything yet is the context out of which everything arises out of and passes into, and therefore is inextricably connected to everything, and due to the nature of such a unified inextricability, IS everything.

For me, id recommend being able to reliably access deep states of formlessness, and letting it guide you into the absolute, which is qualitatively different than formlessness, yet is infinite nothing. It is more formless than formless states. 
 

Confusing these formless states + unconsciously reifying these types of ‘unrelenting non-duality’ talks = conceptual no self. Can happen even without the access to formless states of consciousness, as with what happened in my case. 
 

All this to say, THIS *is* it, but god damn is IT subtle and no easy feat to truly grasp. But hey, the only time become enlightened is right now so go for it ?

@Consilience

I am trying to understand what you'r writing, i have no luck..;) 

[The0Self]

36 minutes ago, OneIntoOne said:

@Consilience

I am trying to understand what you'r writing, i have no luck..;) 

All there is; this, is everything. This can appear as anything, including relationship. However, this is not relationship -- this simply is what it is. What/how it actually is, and even IF it is, cannot be known. Ever. There's no one to do it. There's no separation of any kind at all.

Edited August 10, 2021 by The0Self

[WelcometoReality]

On 2021-08-09 at 3:58 AM, Consilience said:

“I don’t like it” because it doesn’t represent “my” path at all, so there’s an immediate recognition of its limitations relative to “my” path. It’s very unhelpful, un-precise, and easily co-opted by the ego towards reifying a ‘no self’ self image and spiritual bypassing. The possibility for self deception via uncompromising non-duality is huge. 
 

Hopefully it provides genuine help for some, given the popularity of these types of channels.

This resonates, the video does not.  It seems like many get stuck in that perspective or rather holding on to it. There is a point where all teachings need to be dropped and get back to planet earth. ?

[Consilience]

5 hours ago, WelcometoReality said:

This resonates, the video does not.  It seems like many get stuck in that perspective or rather holding on to it. There is a point where all teachings need to be dropped and get back to planet earth. ?

?

Equally, if a mind can‘t comfortably navigate competing, sometimes outright paradoxical positions, this is a huge sign the ego has built a conceptual self structure out of the new position. If a mind can’t understand the relativity, wisdom, and unity of these competing and paradoxical positions, it’s due to a lack of clear seeing and a lack of fluidity with the self structure. A self with more fluidity is easier to see clearly and to notice unconscious blind spots.

The seeing through ALL points of view in a simultaneous integration of ALL points of view is the activity of a powerful mind, and the quality of an awakened consciousness. 

[Shmurda]

It's like saying school teachers don't like graduation because it puts them out of a job. I bet most spiritual teachers would love it if their seeking students embodied non-duality. Then they could turn their marketing strategies to the other 98% of the human population.

And, if 100% of people embodied non-duality and they actually were out of a job, I'm sure they'd agree it's a price worth paying! 

Edited August 11, 2021 by Shmurda

[Raptorsin7]

15 minutes ago, Shmurda said:

It's like saying school teachers don't like graduation because it puts them out of a job. I bet most spiritual teachers would love it if their seeking students embodied non-duality. Then they could turn thier marketing strategies to the other 98% of the human population.

And, if 100% of people embodied non-duality and they actually were out of a job, I'm sure they'd agree it's a price worth paying! 

Amen