Dialogue on the neural mechanisms of darkness retreats and mystical experiences

[Carl-Richard]

Taken from a conversation in the youtube comment section of this video (cmon, bear with me ): 

5-MeO-DMT - The Magic Pill To Enlightenment & God 

 

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Comment Carl-Richard:

Melatonin (N-acetyl-5-Methoxy-Tryptamine) is very close to 5-MeO-DMT (5-Methoxy-N,N-Dimethyltryptamine). It seems that the strongest compounds almost always have something in common with endogenous compounds. For instance, the structure of 5-MeO-DMT can be made by taking the left-half of melatonin and sticking it on the right-half of DMT.

 

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Response Mattslev:

5-MeO can be synthesized from melatonin. In fact, this is likely the process by which Sonoran Desert toads produce 5-MeO, converting a flood of melatonin that is created after spending 9-10 months estivating underground in complete darkness into the most precious entheogenic molecule. I also believe humans can replicate this process endogenously through extended isolation in complete darkness. From accounts that I've heard and read, after a week or so of remaining in complete darkness people report experiencing a state of nonduality highly reminiscent of that induced by 5-MeO. This makes sense given the chemical relationship between melatonin and 5-MeO. There are several darkness retreats around the world that cater specifically to this experience, providing a room sealed off from all light including when food and water are delivered. You can stay as long or a short as you like, but it seems like beyond the 7-10 day mark is when the magic really happens.

 

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Reponse Carl-Richard:

Are you saying the brain just keeps producing more and more melatonin the longer you stay in the dark? This is a cool explanation, but from the way I understand the brain, there is a lot more going on than the build-up and break-down of serotonin/melatonin. I would explain this exact phenomena from a perspective that I think is a bit more comprehensive and "zoomed-out":

When you stay in the dark for longer periods of time, you upregulate or re-satiate the neural systems (receptors, pathways, networks etc.) that are associated with wakefulness and waking consciousness by temporarily depriving them of that stimulation (i.e. the daily flood of serotonin and other neuromodulators associated with daylight).

It's true that when we're deprived of sunlight, serotonin is converted to melatonin, but what I'm saying is that this is going on in tandem with probably thousands of serotonin-like substances and other daylight associated neuromodulators, and also at the scale of pathways, networks and other meta-neural structures. This means that while being in this daylight-deprived state, your entire brain is flooded with a vast array of "night substances" and is essentially put in night mode.

When you then re-introduce the brain to the otherwise normal stimuli of a sunrise, your brain then experiences an elevated hyper-response to that stimuli due to the aforementioned induction of a generalized homeostatic adaptation to night time activity and sensitization to daylight activity, some of which may indeed include bursting open of the metabolic flood gates of exotic serotonin analogues like 5-MeO-DMT. My point is that while 5-MeO may indeed be involved as a mediating mechanism of this phenomena, it's only one particular part of a larger puzzle of homeostatic adaptation and sensitization of neurological systems.

 

He hasn't responded yet, but I will add his responses as they come if the conversation still stays interesting (I at least found his original response inspiring). Until then, forgive me for leaving you with the old spiel of taking a "meta-perspective" when it comes to psychedelics and the brain . You guys can also jump into the conversation if you want  

[Goldzilla]

I know how to access own DMT without darkness. 

Is what awakening is all about and mastering of Shambhavi mudra. 

 

The trips in the dark and mystical experiences, are only illusions, that is not awakening, is a point of view of the Ego. As dreams are, a flood of DMT in REM sleep, fast breathing = melatonin = DMT. 

On an awake state, tapping into DMT using breathing and the mudra i mentioned, with very specific attention train and focus. One will feel, or atleast me and others i've trained. It is a very different experience from the dream state, the trip state. 

If someone knows how a cocaine hit feels like, is way harder than that. Is like taking a jar of coffee or a near miss accident, it wakes you up unelievably. And one can tap into it according to experience and comfort, because it can give you a panic state if you don't know what are you doing or having the attention in the wrong spot upon the body. 

So, i don't advice this, only to hardcore meditators. This is where the psychic power is located. 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Goldzilla

[Carl-Richard]

15 minutes ago, Goldzilla said:

The trips in the dark and mystical experiences, are only illusions, that is not awakening, is a point of view of the Ego. 

They are nevertheless a source of mystical experiences. Psychedelics and meditation are just two technologies of many that saints and sages have utilized all throughout history to alter their consciousnesses. Jesus himself engaged in ritualized near-drowning to induce near-death experiences i.e. mystical experiences. Buddha starved himself to near to death to realize The Middle Way which lead to the The Four Noble truths etc.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Carl-Richard

[Goldzilla]

2 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

They are nevertheless a source of mystical experiences. Psychedelics and meditation are just two technologies of many that saints and sages have utilized all throughout history to alter their consciousnesses. Jesus himself engaged in ritualized near-drowning to induce near-death experiences i.e. mystical experiences. Buddha starved himself to death to realize The Middle Way which lead to the The Four Noble truths etc.

I first deprived myself of sleep, this is how i discovered what i say. In that agony of sleep, one awakens or goes insane. 

[Goldzilla]

3 minutes ago, Carl-Richard said:

They are nevertheless a source of mystical experiences. Psychedelics and meditation are just two technologies of many that saints and sages have utilized all throughout history to alter their consciousnesses. Jesus himself engaged in ritualized near-drowning to induce near-death experiences i.e. mystical experiences. Buddha starved himself to death to realize The Middle Way which lead to the The Four Noble truths etc.

I first deprived myself of sleep, this is how i discovered what i say. In that agony of sleep, one awakens or goes insane. And after that was easy to tap again and awake to new levels. So yeah, my opinion is, once one discovers this, there is little need or none of special techniques or substances. The intuition skyrockets, to a point of Doctor Xavier on X Man, and i struggled on screening what i don't want to hear or see, took me some months. Because man, once you awake this, there is a flood in perception, is like tripping very hard, but you look at yourself and everything seems normal, etc. Is way complex than any book, is uncharted territory. The posibillities become infinite. 

[Goldzilla]

Well, maybe i'll make a post on specifics and how to open the gate of DMT while awake, but maybe i don't want to spoil people's journey. If we gather several people interested, maybe i'l give it a try and make the guide. 

In the end, is better like this. Comment on this fellow humans, and if you really interested i'll release the kraken. Because is annoying to teach something without being asked, i know how it is. 

[gettoefl]

16 hours ago, Goldzilla said:

Well, maybe i'll make a post on specifics and how to open the gate of DMT while awake, but maybe i don't want to spoil people's journey. If we gather several people interested, maybe i'l give it a try and make the guide. 

In the end, is better like this. Comment on this fellow humans, and if you really interested i'll release the kraken. Because is annoying to teach something without being asked, i know how it is. 

yes would be super interested to hear your insights