The subjective, psychedelics and insanity

[Inliytened1]

26 minutes ago, taotemu said:

I'm not my body, so why eat? 

Attachment to the body, nothing more.

[wildflower]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

Attachment to the body, nothing more.

Lol yeah, but the question is obviously rhetorical, he isn't asking the question literally, can you not tell that from his whole post? 

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, wildflower said:

Lol yeah, but the question is obviously rhetorical, he isn't asking the question literally, can you not tell that from his whole post? 

You asked what is the value of deep spiritual Truths didn't you?  They transcend your own existence.

[wildflower]

6 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You asked what is the value of deep spiritual Truths didn't you?  They transcend your own existence.

I didn't ask that, think you have me mixed up with someone else?

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, wildflower said:

I didn't ask that, think you have me mixed up with someone else?

Yes sorry it was directed at @taotemu

[taotemu]

7 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

You asked what is the value of deep spiritual Truths didn't you?  They transcend your own existence.

No.  Deep spiritual truths ground and contextualize your existence.  Transcendence is just another form of escapism.  If that is the goal, then the ultimate way to transcend is to just commit suicide. 

[gettoefl]

body is your partner in the dream

you need it, it doesn't need you

view it reverentially

it will do its thing, you can do yours

[wildflower]

1 minute ago, Inliytened1 said:

Yes sorry it was directed at @taotemu

I actually perhaps might disagree with you however, deep spiritual truths can have value in the relative domain. It doesn't have to be a binary absolute -> non existence/death or 0 value.

[Inliytened1]

Just now, wildflower said:

I actually perhaps might disagree with you however, deep spiritual truths can have value in the relative domain. It doesn't have to be a binary absolute -> non existence/death or 0 value.

Of course they do

But that value cannot be measured with one's and zeroes

 

[wildflower]

1 minute ago, taotemu said:

No.  Deep spiritual truths ground and contextualize your existence.  Transcendence is just another form of escapism.  If that is the goal, then the ultimate way to transcend is to just commit suicide. 

Exactly this. Contextualization is key to the relative world we live in, and spiritual truths give the highest context.

[Inliytened1]

6 minutes ago, taotemu said:

No.  Deep spiritual truths ground and contextualize your existence.  Transcendence is just another form of escapism.  If that is the goal, then the ultimate way to transcend is to just commit suicide. 

They both ground it and transcend it.  Why do you assume that transcendence is cancelation?  It is only that if you choose that.  But you can also choose to embrace.

[wildflower]

I think everyone is an agreement here, just talking about the same things with different language. Transcendence is itself contextual and relative, so depending how we use this term, it will just seem like disagreement. 

 

[Inliytened1]

2 minutes ago, wildflower said:

I think everyone is an agreement here, just talking about the same things with different language. Transcendence is itself contextual and relative, so depending how we use this term, it will just seem like disagreement. 

 

The point is to go beyond survival.  If that is to ones interest then spirituality may have value

 

[wildflower]

2 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

The point is to go beyond survival.  If that is to ones interest then spirituality may have value

 

Spirituality/enlightenment as a theory isn't hard to understand, it's hard to embody. 

Communities like these should hopefully give people space to engage in honest discourse and share their thoughts and feelings, and to be supportive to each other along the way. 

It essentially is going to lead to renunciation, in a culture of acquire. And having people online that understand and support, and can just shoot the shit with is helpful

[Inliytened1]

4 minutes ago, wildflower said:

Spirituality/enlightenment as a theory isn't hard to understand, it's hard to embody. 

Communities like these should hopefully give people space to engage in honest discourse and share their thoughts and feelings, and to be supportive to each other along the way. 

It essentially is going to lead to renunciation, in a culture of acquire. And having people online that understand and support, and can just shoot the shit with is helpful

Yeah for sure.  And I would say embodiment is a continual process.  We are always growing as human beings.  To become more selfless can expand our footprint.  But as a self we find ourselves in a bind.  The selfless self cancels itself out

 

[Purple Man]

On 8/8/2021 at 4:53 PM, wildflower said:

Spirituality/enlightenment as a theory isn't hard to understand, it's hard to embody. 

Communities like these should hopefully give people space to engage in honest discourse and share their thoughts and feelings, and to be supportive to each other along the way. 

It essentially is going to lead to renunciation, in a culture of acquire. And having people online that understand and support, and can just shoot the shit with is helpful

Yes. It is hard to embody even when there has been a very legit awakening and  enlightenment has stopped being only an interesting theory to read about.

I don´t know if anybody here is aware of a peculiar mystic/philosopher, Peter Wilberg. I received very interesting ideas from reading/mailing him, and he has come up with a single word that it´s like a talisman when it comes to integrate your Godhead-ness and your humanity: "intersubjectivity".

This single word, "intersubjectivity", allows for the recognition of others not as mere objects in one´s own dream (which can lead to sick kinds of solipsism or even to the panic of an epic kind of trascendental aloneness), but like some type of "community of subjects", of "collectivity of individual perspectives the Absolute takes in this very moment". In this way, you can live your life grounded on the knowledge of others as relative dots connected to you, while at the same time being aware of us as the One Godhead projecting and observing those individual projections. 

I say this because I suppose that most of us have had life-shattering insights, and still find tough to live a normal life after the cessation of the common view of yourself/people as bodies in a universal common physical ground, so any help is very welcome.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Purple Man

[Inliytened1]

7 minutes ago, Purple Man said:

It is tough to live a normal life when you stop seeing yourself/people as bodies in a universal common physical ground, and any help is very welcome.

Great insights however this is where I would like to break down awakening for you and I do so with full respect.  When you awaken as God you have full power.  This includes the ability to fall back asleep- meaning you have the ability to imagine all of reality. That is  what that entails.

[Purple Man]

30 minutes ago, Inliytened1 said:

Great insights however this is where I would like to break down awakening for you and I do so with full respect.  When you awaken as God you have full power.  This includes the ability to fall back asleep- meaning you have the ability to imagine all of reality. That is  what that entails.

Thank you very much for the comment. 

Most of the time, I am totally grounded as some kind of absolute, total nothingness that somehow is capable of  projecting (and creating through the act of perceiving it) a beam of impersonal consciousness that stubbornly solidifies into the visible universe and my inner world, with a figure which is the body that acts as the centre of the play. And I am beyond the beam and the universe, which seem to float within me.

 That´s my solid awakening...which I know is still lacking something. As you say, yes, it is that trascendental Awareness which I am what is imagining reality, or, as I say, creating it through perceiving it. But there is a lack of joy in the process. I don´t feel the love of a father to his children. Mind you, I am a very happy, enthusiastic individual, and in my life there is joy, kindness, music, art, calm and laughter...but there is not the kind of trascendental Love for that which comes out of myself: that individual, relative perspective as a whole.

Leo Gura advised me to try the psychedelic path. It very probably would be the solution.
 

Edited August 9, 2021 by Purple Man