Thoughts on Gambling (And Poker specifically)

[alpha_ulrich]

First of all, I want to know your opinion on whether you consider Poker to be gambling, or a skill based game. Secondly, I want to know what do you think of making a career as a professional poker player. Finally, what are your thoughts on building a platform, where these professional poker players make their living? Can someone break this down for me in terms of spiral dynamics stages, and what you guys think is their viability in today's world (and comparing different parts of the world, like US vs Africa).

[Wilhelm44]

Not answering your question, but I thought this was pretty cool, gambling experiments done using heart resonance, with significant results in Vegas.

 

[Yarco]

2 hours ago, alpha_ulrich said:

First of all, I want to know your opinion on whether you consider Poker to be gambling, or a skill based game.

Both. It's not as bad as roulette or something that's just dumb luck, but it's still gambling. You can have the right cards, play based on the correct statistics, and still get a bad beat.

2 hours ago, alpha_ulrich said:

Secondly, I want to know what do you think of making a career as a professional poker player.

It's possible but probably not as glamorous as you'd expect. It's not going to WSOP tournaments in person and being on TV and winning big bucks. It's going to your local casino and fleecing money from gambling addicts and drunks. Or grinding 6 low-stakes tables online simultaneously for 8 hours straight.

3 hours ago, alpha_ulrich said:

Finally, what are your thoughts on building a platform, where these professional poker players make their living?

Bad idea. Professionals don't want to play other professionals, it's not a winning proposition. They want to play fish.
You might be able to create a platform that bankrolls promising up-and-coming pro poker players, or you represent them almost like an agent. But if you're looking to create another Pokerstars or similar gambling platform, chances are you won't be able to make one better than what already exists.

3 hours ago, alpha_ulrich said:

Can someone break this down for me in terms of spiral dynamics stages, and what you guys think is their viability in today's world (and comparing different parts of the world, like US vs Africa).

Pure stage orange. This isn't a life purpose or business idea that would give anything back to the world. Poker is a win-lose game. Someone wins, someone loses, plus the house takes a rake from both of you. 

In the US you have online gambling laws to contend with. Bringing poker to Africa seems like an evil thing to do.

The most profitable solution would be to train a bunch of people in 3rd world countries who have a natural aptitude for math to play poker. Then basically put them in a sweatshop and force them to play Poker for 12 hours a day. Similar to Chinese World of Warcraft gold farmers. But that's also probably one of the most cruel things you could do.

[Iksander]

@alpha_ulrich Short term it's gambling, whereas for a professional over a very long time the skill aspect comes out in results. Poker is by nature a high variance game and the cure for variance is volume, the amount of hands you play. In Ten-Thousand hands you cannot get a clear picture of someone's skill level in the game they are playing. In One-Million hands however, you will have a very clear picture. 

A career as a poker player is viable, but it's difficult and unglamorous. Today you will have to practice online in progressively tougher fields of opponents and study computer generated solutions to different situations. Like anything else, it will take dedication to become good.

As for building a platform for poker players, could you shed a little more light on what you mean?

 

 

 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Iksander

[alpha_ulrich]

22 hours ago, Iksander said:

As for building a platform for poker players, could you shed a little more light on what you mean?

An example - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cereus_Poker_Network
Current online poker platforms have a multitude of problems, which could be solved, given you know the technical and business nuances.

[universe]

I'd say it's a sport, which caters to gamblers.

The main value it provides is entertainment.

So it falls into the same category as football, chess or E-Sports.

[hamedsf]

there's nothing wrong with that and if you have money from that skill, it means that you have money.

but some poker stuff are forbidden in some countries. so it's not a real skill to rely on.

[Bob Seeker]

I would recommend you put the energy you would invest to be good at poker into a creative endeavor.

 

[CharlesHewitt]

On 07.08.2021 at 5:51 PM, Yarco said:

Both. It's not as bad as roulette or something that's just dumb luck, but it's still gambling. You can have the right cards, play based on the correct statistics, and still get a bad beat.

It's possible but probably not as glamorous as you'd expect. It's not going to WSOP tournaments in person and being on TV and winning big bucks. It's going to your local casino with classic slots and fleecing money from gambling addicts and drunks. Or grinding 6 low-stakes tables online simultaneously for 8 hours straight.

Bad idea. Professionals don't want to play other professionals, it's not a winning proposition. They want to play fish.
You might be able to create a platform that bankrolls promising up-and-coming pro poker players, or you represent them almost like an agent. But if you're looking to create another Pokerstars or similar gambling platform, chances are you won't be able to make one better than what already exists.

Pure stage orange. This isn't a life purpose or business idea that would give anything back to the world. Poker is a win-lose game. Someone wins, someone loses, plus the house takes a rake from both of you. 

In the US you have online gambling laws to contend with. Bringing poker to Africa seems like an evil thing to do.

The most profitable solution would be to train a bunch of people in 3rd world countries who have a natural aptitude for math to play poker. Then basically put them in a sweatshop and force them to play Poker for 12 hours a day. Similar to Chinese World of Warcraft gold farmers. But that's also probably one of the most cruel things you could do.

What you are saying sounds very crazy to me. In fact, when you hear such things, you understand that "1984" and "Animal Farm" have a place to be in our life. This future scares me. And if we talk about my attitude to gambling, I think it's very bad.

[LawrenceLewis]

On 07.08.2021 at 3:57 PM, Wilhelm44 said:

Not answering your question, but I thought this was pretty cool, gambling experiments done using heart resonance, with significant results in Vegas.

 

Great video. I am a very gambling person and often use online casinos or bookmakers to gamble or bet on sports events. On the page https://sportsbookswithcrypto.com/cryptos/dogecoin/ I recently read information about crypto-bookmakers with specific cryptocurrencies (in this case: Dogecoin). Does anyone use this?

Edited September 10, 2021 by LawrenceLewis

[Wilhelm44]

@LawrenceLewis   Yeah there's some gems on that channel, especially some of the older stuff.

[hamedsf]

who gives a heck about stages when you can live like dan bilzerian with poker ?

[Monkey_in_suit]

I am professional poker player last 10 years.

Poker is much more skill and and much less luck than people that are not  involved in that think. Almost half of my working hours are spend not playing poker at all, just learning game and analizing hands. You can have loosing months as a professional but if you are good player longterm you will win. That variance is what keeps poker profitabile for professionals cuz losing players wil not come back if they lose always.

It's pure stage orange job and as I grow up on the spiral I am thinking more about switching to something where I contribute to society but nice money keeps me griniding poker more.

As growing it's harder and harder connecting with my poker friends too. 

Not recommending trying to start poker career if you are trying to grow on spiral and it's really compentetive and hard nowdays to suceed.

You need millions to build platform and poker will be viable as long as vast majority is not in stage green+.

That means poker will be around way after you die.

[Hello from Russia]

It is both

[BlackMaze]

It's a skill based game. It isn't worth the grind. It's a waste of time. But it's fun and has things to teach you like dealing with tilt and patience. 

Build a platform? The are already huge players there hard to compete with. Unless it's something very new and original. 

[hyruga]

It's both skills and luck. But the skills part is more than just poker skills. It also includes your mindset, psychology, how you read other players, the money level and management plus more.

 

[Arcangelo]

I

used

to

Be a poker grinder.

Poker is dead.

What you need is a time machine to go 15 years back,

and make millions.

I

know

is

cool

But

don't

waste

your

time

kiddo

Guys

like

@Monkey_in_suit

will

eat

you

alive.