Global warming and climate change

[JJfromSwitzerland]

Where I live a lot of ppl are demonstrating against big corporates because of climate change and global warming, especially the youth.

Last week they were demonstrating in front of our biggest banks such as UBS and Credit Suisse and the public transportation and traffic was blocked in the city.

So the planet is getting warmer and warmer, I can see it even by myself how glaciers are melting down when I go there hiking and the weather is twisted . It doesn't look very hopeful.

Do you think humanity will survive this and manage this crises? You can see and read a lot of apocolyptical warnings these days.

What is your take on the global warming issue? Will humanity make it?

[impulse9]

[Goldzilla]

I don't know dude, here in Spain near Barcelona this summer was the worst summer i've seen. Why? Because is the first chilly summer i had in 20 years. And here used to be hot, like you where sweating night time. Now you need a sweater night time. So this climate change is debatable. We only see this in big cities and fragmented media footage. 

[trenton]

14 hours ago, JJfromSwitzerland said:

Do you think humanity will survive this and manage this crises? You can see and read a lot of apocolyptical warnings these days.

What is your take on the global warming issue? Will humanity make it?

I think that humanity will survive the crisis, but not without a lot of suffering.  The most concerning issue for me is the water wars because warmer temperatures can cause droughts and worsen wild fires.  As a result, if nothing is done about climate change, humanity can expect a lot of bloodshed in the near future.  The Rwandan genocide was linked to water conflicts.

The countries that will suffer the most will be the impoverished nations that are the least responsible for it.  In the developed world we will experience worsening hurricanes and more heat strokes, but we have the most control over water and oil.  It is expected that oil wars will transition to water wars soon.

If these predictions come true, it will probably be worse than the holocaust with entire nations falling apart for a lack of water and the genocides it inspires.  It will be dire, but I think humanity could survive this worst case scenario because we have proven to be a resilient species throughout history.  If oil wars transition to water wars, then the developed world will certainly survive as we address national emergencies like flooding, mass displacement, the spread of malaria, and couple of other things.  Unfortunately, many impoverished nations may not survive.

Of course I would prefer to avoid the water wars somehow and all of this societal collapse, but the corruption and lobbying in the government is powerful and it does not look like there is the political willpower to prevent the societal collapse because of short term profits.  I think climate activists are losing and they now feel powerless to the point that some result to environmental terrorism like destroying pipelines and vandalizing factories owned by big corporations.

[aurum]

15 hours ago, JJfromSwitzerland said:

What is your take on the global warming issue? Will humanity make it?

The problem with this question is that it still frames survival as most important. And more specifically, human survival.

This is of course normal as survival is part of our function. A climate poses a potential threat to that, which triggers us. 

But could we also ask better questions?

Could we ask: are we in alignment with our highest values regarding our relationship to the earth?

Could we ask: will we survive into a world worth living?

Could we ask: does the earth and everything in it have inherent value?

I’m not saying these are easy questions or I have the answers. But I feel by asking them, we get the mind going in a much different direction than pure survival mode. The goal of actualization work is to thrive, not simply get by.

[Bob Seeker]

If you ask around you’ll see that most people who are not denying climate change are quite worried about it and do want a solution.

the question, I think, is which among us are going to exercise bravery in order to be a leader. A leader in the sense of demonstrating a new ethic. Not only recycling their plastic bottles or trying to get policy makers to change policy, but literally living like a large percentage of us would all need to live in order to reach true sustainability.

this is a bold change. But it is best seen as an opportunity exclusive to our times to stand up for something big, live with a strong integrity, and be a conscious leader. This is not something we should force on people, but something that, when demonstrated, could be so epic in a sense that it touches people and inspires them toward a similar calling if their heart is ready for it. 
 

This idea comes from the book “conversations with God” book 4 by Neale Donald Walsch 

hard to do it justice here

Edited August 9, 2021 by Bob Seeker

[Blackhawk]

On 2021-08-07 at 0:35 PM, JJfromSwitzerland said:

Do you think humanity will survive this and manage this crises? Will humanity make it?

Yes. It will take much more than bad weather to make the human race go extinct.

On 2021-08-08 at 3:59 AM, aurum said:

Could we ask: are we in alignment with our highest values regarding our relationship to the earth?

Could we ask: will we survive into a world worth living?

Could we ask: does the earth and everything in it have inherent value?

Humans will want to live no matter what. No matter the circumstances. Even if it only consists of massive suffering. It will always be worth living for them.

Take for example the resistence against assisted suicide. It's illegal in many countries. Especially in Sweden. People are retarded in their brains because they irrationally always just want to live, and force life on others, even if it means massive suffering.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Leo Gura]

@impulse9 Watch what you post on this forum or you will be banned.

[Thought Art]

On 8/7/2021 at 1:53 PM, Goldzilla said:

I don't know dude, here in Spain near Barcelona this summer was the worst summer i've seen. Why? Because is the first chilly summer i had in 20 years. And here used to be hot, like you where sweating night time. Now you need a sweater night time. So this climate change is debatable. We only see this in big cities and fragmented media footage. 

Isn't that change? It's a complex system

[Leo Gura]

 

[impulse9]

@Leo Gura Why, because I point out the inherent insanity of claiming you can predict a chaotic system with any degree of accuracy whatsoever? If you knew what kind of error margins these models are dealing with you'd pee yourself laughing.

 

Here's the actual suffering all this bullshit causes, this is just one of many quotes like this on Reddit:

I’m 17 years old and I just saw a post explaining how the world is gonna be dead by 2050 due to climate change… why is no one acknowledging this enough, how am I supposed to be happy knowing this is going to happen? I have family members who I care about and want to live fantastic lives. Is there anyone that isn’t so pessimistic about this and can set some proper reassurance?

 

And here's one for you:

 

Feel free to ban me if that makes you feel any better.

[Thought Art]

@impulse9 Sharing a stupid meme/ comic isn't really high quality information to make a point. So, your kind of like, falling into your own trap.

[impulse9]

@Thought Art Sometimes a meme is worth a thousand words. If you want to spread doom and gloom and a general sense of despair, be my guest. But at least do yourself a favor and read some opposing opinions, you may be surprised. Scientific consensus and media hype aren't worth jack shit if they don't align with objective reality. And no one, not even the IPCC has any claim on objective reality, they can claim consensus but at the end of the day if the data doesn't align with reality it's worthless.

[hamedsf]

On 8/7/2021 at 7:15 PM, impulse9 said:

@impulse9 Haha, right on the point! 

[JJfromSwitzerland]

On 7.8.2021 at 6:53 PM, Goldzilla said:

I don't know dude, here in Spain near Barcelona this summer was the worst summer i've seen. Why? Because is the first chilly summer i had in 20 years. And here used to be hot, like you where sweating night time. Now you need a sweater night time. So this climate change is debatable. We only see this in big cities and fragmented media footage. 

That shouldn't be a good sign dude. Here in Switzerland is also the worst summer I've seen in my life  - lots of rain here but South of Europe like Italy and Greece they have fire everywhere cause it's too hot.

[impulse9]

@Fortunate Son I'm well versed in data science. Maybe you don't realize the scope of data fuckery that goes on in it, but I sure as hell do. Anyone who claims they can accurately predict what the climate will do even 5 years from now is delusional, and it doesn't really matter if they have credentials up to the stratosphere. A lot of climate scientists disagree with the consensus, yet they can't even publicly fucking talk about it. And why? Because they would immediately get jumped by a million people claiming how they're anti-science, deniers, and in the pocket of oil companies. It's a very dishonest way to do science. Science exists because claims you make in science can be criticized and investigated and corrected when needed, but the trend is more and more in the direction of making science into some kind of infallible religion that you either 100% believe, or you're branded a denier immediately. Consensus doesn't mean shit if it doesn't align with objective reality. And there's no better example of failed predictions than with climate. Actually study this shit and you'll be surprised at just how much bullshit has been generated in the past few decades about it. You think the climate scientists in the 70s making predictions about the coming ice age were stupider than they are today? You think computers make predictions better? Think again. The Earth climate is a chaotic system and even the tiniest change with one variable can lead to massively different outcomes. It's exactly the same as trying to predict the motion of a double pendulum, except far worse since we're dealing with literally millions of variable unaccounted for in any model. Any scientist worth their salt will understand this, but unfortunately most scientists are quacks themselves with no grasp over the fundamentals.

I'm sure I'm just gonna be labelled a denier or whatever so I'm gonna do you all a favor and stop posting here.

[JJfromSwitzerland]

2 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

 

crazy

[TheAlchemist]

@impulse9 weather is chaotic, not as much climate. Climate is much less chaotic and patterns in regards to how CO2 and other greenhouse gas levels have impacted average global temperature are quite well understood. We know and can make quite reliable models on how changes in greenhouse gas concentrations in the atmosphere will affect the climate. At least that is very well established, unless you suggest tree ring and ice core measurements are not reliable indicators of historical climate around the world. The models that are the the basis of the scenarios have been refined throughout recent decades and have become quite accurate in predicting general trends in climate. 

Weather predictions one week ahead are chaotic and way less accurate than general scenarios about how different levels of greenhouse gases will affect the global climate decades or centuries into the future. General larger-scale trends are quite orderly and much easier to model than small-scale events, which are increasingly complex and chaotic the smaller the scale is. This applies to pretty much any system. 

Edited August 9, 2021 by TheAlchemist

[Preety_India]

My personal prediction - humanity will not survive this. Can't get rid of  corporate greed because nobody has the bravery for it. Nor the money. 

So nothing much will be done to save climate. Any urgent efforts will be too late

 

 

[impulse9]

@TheAlchemist That's not accurate because errors propagate through any such model and accumulate until your data becomes virtually useless. It's actually infinitely easier to accurately predict weather on a short timescale, than make conclusive predictions about climate in the long term. And measurement is another massive problem that you're probably not aware of. See this video for a great explanation of just how in the dark we really are when it comes to even measuring the surface temperature of Earth with any degree of accuracy at all.

My personal take is that climate change is a problem, but it's been massively and needlessly amplified by the media hype train. We will get over it. We got over WW2 and the cold war. Ponder that for a second.