I did radical self-love but it didn't help

[Nivsch]

@Waken Do you think that because I wanted too badly to feel the love in order to remove the fear, so it hasn't worked because it was too shallow and didnt came from a deep systemic place?

Also I think right now that maybe the dramatic love scenes for my inner child can be too emotionally and too different from the regular state, and therefore can backfire and do more anxiety rather than less.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Nivsch

[Waken]

@Nivsch Well something like that yes. I heard Matt Kahn say something of such nature about it, that your inner child knows it when you're trying to love it in order to get rid of the fear. He suggested practicing self-love just for the sake of loving yourself or such. Anyway, these days I don't try to wrestle with the fear anymore, or trying to accept it, or just feeling the emotion or whatever. Tried that for a long time because I thought that was how it needed to be done, but frankly I can't say that really seemed to help much lol. In some cases, maybe that helped but in others it seemed that the emotion just came back. That was a frustrating time. I think that might be because it comes down (mostly) towards the way you think about a subject, and then if you don't change your thoughts about something, the emotion might come back. I've heard more things like that. Sometimes when I feel something I now acknowledge how I feel about the subject, and then just find thoughts that feel better or such. Many teachers say that you have to face your fears, but I don't believe that anymore. Sometimes if you "go to the fear", you just make a bigger mess lol. If the issue doesn't come up much in your life, maybe better to just focus on what feels good, if you do get reminded on regularly in the living on your life, maybe better to work on associating better feeling thoughts with the subject. That's just my present thoughts on the subject.

Edited August 9, 2021 by Waken

[ted73104]

@Waken I totally relate to what you said. Facing your fears doesn't mean that you can always find some way to embrace them. Many people have told me to just don't think about the deep problems I have and rather to focus on the lifestyle that I want. This is basically the law of attraction, and from my experience, it does work to a certain degree.

However I was too stubborn to just let go of trying to resolve my inner issues. So I spent a long time, 5~6 years, struggling with my shame and fears, struggling with my identity. Eventually I was able to feel into my deep emotions and be conscious of what was causing the pain. In this process, I found out that you actually need to gain a more powerful love than the "self" love. Because there is a lot of stuff in life like courage, compassion, various social skills that basically can only be trained when you're with a group or someone else. And it is the non-stop practice of fully accepting the concept of "other" where you can strengthen your capability to Love. When you strengthen your Love towards "other" events, things, or people, you also will gradually gain more awareness. This awareness will allow you to connect dots more easily and help you be more conscious about your issues than you did before. Sitting alone at home and just comtemplating about these stuff was important, but not enough.

I was very fortunate to be able to identify and embrace my fears through a process that occurred to me mostly. Most of the stuff that happened and people I met which/who eventually helped me were not planned. However I know that stepping out of your comfort zone and obtaining more love for everything around you is the way to embracing your fears. This might be a very long struggle as it was for me, but I hope everyone who takes this journey is able to find peace in the end.

[Waken]

@ted73104 Thank you. I can relate to what you say. In the books Conversations with God, something was mentioned such as 'the fastest way to help yourself it to help another', which I've found quite true. It's like when you're afraid of something, and you notice someone else being afraid of that, if you can help him, you're helped yourself with that topic. What you give you become or something.
Yes, being to stubborn to let go of trying to fix it all, I think many of us can relate, I know I can. Good to read that you're feeling much better now:)
 

[Nivsch]

@Waken Yesterday I had a breakthrough when I felt high anxiety about the ocd thoughts, and about the fact that the self-love doesn't help.

But then I had a new thought that said:

"You don't have to do self-love, you don't have to do nothing! And then when I don't obligate myself to do it, this is the real self-acceptance and self-love."

That was a huge relief.

And then the anxiety melted away. it still here but less as I feel I have learned something new and very significant.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Nivsch

[Waken]

@Nivsch Yes yes yes!:D Love it, and that's exactly it. What you said is an example of what Abraham Hicks suggests 'find thoughts that feel good, that give you relief'. When I get some worries some thoughts that often work good for me are 'I don't have to think of anything right now', 'I don't have to figure anything out now', 'I don't have to fix anything now' etc. I might repeat such thoughts a bit because they also hold a sort of energetic space. You can FEEL what the right feeling of the thoughts is that you need when you listen to your feelings, that's how it seems to me anyway. I also had all these thoughts that I needed to love myself more or something, and then you have an image of how you should treat yourself, while actually if you feel, you may notice that that is actually not how you want to be treated (also not by yourself) at that moment. It's just a matter of tuning in and seeing what you actually feel like that would feel good, which seems to me is more about the feeling of the thought than it's really about the content of the thought. That's SO much easier! It makes life so much better, because I know that I can say or think the things that I feel I need, and that seems to be ALL that's necessary. Easy, sneasy, peasy. I've had moments with lots of worries and anxiety too not to long ago too, and know it's very nice to have to relief from that lol

Yes I agree, it's significant, very much so for me anyway. Love to read what you wrote and that you have a way to work with the anxiety when it's there.

Edited August 13, 2021 by Waken

[Nivsch]

On 8/7/2021 at 5:42 PM, Thought Art said:

Lol, I edited the wrong thread.

I hope the rest of the message was for me

 

On 8/7/2021 at 9:51 AM, Goldzilla said:

It is literallly the real worship of God

By that you mean to trust myself in a deeper way that I know what I'm doing and something like that?

 

On 8/7/2021 at 9:57 AM, Esilda said:

Hello!

This is so beautiful to hear, this is what we need to do. With a loving embrace go into our past and console the parts of ourselves that didn't receive the love we truly needed.

Wrap your arms around all of those thoughts with love. 

thanks! its not working as I hoped to, but now I think I need to do it in a more subtle way, and not to push it to happen.

 

On 8/8/2021 at 1:58 AM, WelcometoReality said:

@Nivsch It's all about meeting those uncomfortable feelings. Sit with them, be with them until they dissolve. Let go of the need to do something about them.

Unfortunately this doesn't help me at all, unless I do it in an organized way, with a clock, for 15 minutes straight every day. but still not enough.

 

@Raptorsin7 Thanks I want to do it but I cant in the next few years because I will still have to taper my AD.

 

On 8/9/2021 at 0:46 PM, tsuki said:

Love is not some poetic, imaginative thing that you do once per week with a diary.

Thanks about that. It helped me to understand it better. I hope the anxiety will weaken in time as I think it has to in the long term if I do it correctly.

Edited August 14, 2021 by Nivsch

[Nivsch]

On 13.8.2021 at 1:56 PM, Waken said:

and then you have an image of how you should treat yourself, while actually if you feel, you may notice that that is actually not how you want to be treated (also not by yourself) at that moment.

Do you mean that (for example) I think I want to imagine myself as a child and hug myself, but in reality this isn't freeing me up and therefore, at least in that specific moment, its not really what I need?

On 13.8.2021 at 1:56 PM, Waken said:

which seems to me is more about the feeling of the thought than it's really about the content of the thought

So tricky? 

The mind will want to do a formula of thinking about something he wants will work every time (as the example above with the child?) but the right thing to do is always changing its content, and the structure is more permanent. That's what you meant?

Edited August 14, 2021 by Nivsch

[Esilda]

11 hours ago, Nivsch said:

thanks! its not working as I hoped to, but now I think I need to do it in a more subtle way, and not to push it to happen.

Please keep me updated  

[KennedyCarter]

Make sure to eat fruit! Lots of it!

[Waken]

On 14-8-2021 at 5:39 PM, Nivsch said:

Do you mean that (for example) I think I want to imagine myself as a child and hug myself, but in reality this isn't freeing me up and therefore, at least in that specific moment, its not really what I need?

Hmm, not sure how you mean that. But if imagining that feels good for you to do, then that seems good to me. For example, imagine you're angry and you have this intention of healing yourself and you heard that you should do self-love and say things like 'I love you so much' to yourself to heal when you feel bad. So you feel anger and go and say, or perhaps rather force, saying 'I love you so much' to yourself and maybe that just increases the anger even gives a strong feeling of intrusion or having your boundaries not respected. I say that because I know when I feel anger I often don't want someone coming up to me, trying to hold me, trying to talk to me or trying to get me to talk to them or such, that can create a big fury in me. I often want to be just left alone. Thus, I wouldn't give myself 'I love you so much' words there, or trying to overflow myself with a love feeling there, because that might not feel very loving but very intrusive. I did this for a while, trying to "self-love" while I actually might have wanted to have a moment of solitude. Giving myself solitude may thus be much more self-love than anything else. Sometimes you might feel sad, and perhaps you would just like some reassurance. You can feel that, what you want/long. So perhaps when you feel sad, have a feeling of wanting something reassuring or selflove like and so you can give yourself some reassuring words 'I don't have to know how to fix this now', 'I know that it's more important how I treat myself, then how others treat me', or And maybe you feel like having a bath, or something. For me, I often found that certain words like 'I don't know how to fix this' -which feels like a surrendering-, match well with a certain energy/feeling/longing I feel when and helps me release. In general, it might be good, and it can feel like self-love, to first acknowledge how you feel abou it, or just say something you feel is true about it. Sometimes you might release a bit and then it feels like you've done enough even if there is potentially more to release. Years before I may have tried to push it and continue anyway lol, now I tend to stop for that moment when there is a feeling of it being enough.

 

On 14-8-2021 at 5:39 PM, Nivsch said:

The mind will want to do a formula of thinking about something he wants will work every time (as the example above with the child?) but the right thing to do is always changing its content, and the structure is more permanent. That's what you meant?

Uhh, lol, have you been using the child example for all emotions that came? Well like I said in the example above, if I would do that when I felt anger, that might have felt REALLY rude to the 'angry self' in me. But I do use the 'I don't know how to fix this'-line for multiple situations. But I dig the idea of surrender so that line may just be in alignment with me a good bit in general. I meant that if you feel for example a bit worried and long for a sense of calm, you can just do or say something with a reassuring feel, even if you may even use words such as 'water' or 'waves' lol.

I hope it helps somewhat and doesn't make it appear more complicated than it is. I don't think I've mastered this whole process quite yet, but am learning more and more and like to think I listen better and better. Perhaps it's good to ditch whatever we think how it all works in the moment, and just do what feels best to do right now. Sometimes though, if you have a strong negative thought pattern/momentum, you may just need to ride it out a bit at that moment without being able to really calm yourself in a way you would like. And an expectation that you can heal something in one swoop, might be unrealistic.

Edited August 16, 2021 by Waken

[Waken]

Just saw this message of Matt Kahn on Facebook, reminded me of this topic so thought I would share:
 

Your inner child knows the difference between you offering authentic loving support and applying modalities as a way of fast-tracking your healing journey. Each time healing comes more from agenda than empathy, it infuriates your inner child. It often thinks, “You think you are having a hard time? I’m the very struggle you feel while housed in a body whose consciousness wants nothing to do with me. You think you are alone? You are merely empathing my aloneness within you.”



Once the healing journey is less about manipulating the circumstances of life and more rooted in building authentic relationships with all parts of self; the more peace you make with your innocence, the more the inner child forgives the self-abandonment it has felt within you, the easier it is to the heal the wounds causing patterns of self-abandonment, and further your own evolution from a space of heart-centered authenticity.

In the digital age, you cannot approach your healing journey like a computer with secret short cuts to learn. Each step of this journey must be done with honesty, humility, and earnestness. If not, you will remain at the exact step you are on, unable to proceed until a more authentic version of self arrives to advance your journey forward. This is why everyone deserves more love, not less.

All For Love,

[Gregory1]

On 15.8.2021 at 10:09 AM, KennedyCarter said:

Make sure to eat fruit! Lots of it!

@KennedyCarter and don't forget the meat! 

[Nivsch]

On 18.8.2021 at 3:34 AM, Gregory1 said:

@KennedyCarter and don't forget the meat! 

Less... ??

[Nivsch]

@Waken thank you very much!! I will need to read couple of times more what you wrote and i will want to message you in private after I will process it again. The example you gave about the anger is great and really connected dots for me here.

My new CBT therapist, who is specialized specifically on OCD, said to me this week that I have to show the ocd that he cannot treaten me, and that sometimes you have to put him borders and say him like "i dont want to hear you. go away from my eyes".

it sounds to me like condradicting the "being in harmony with all the parts of ourselves" But i dont know ?‍♂️

Also I had another breakthrough this week when I just said to the thought " Its totally fine that I have this thought and i dont have to do nothing about it. It can be here and I allow myself to feel it and its absolutely fine" with love to myself in the situation in LIVE (not stories about the child but just to support myself right now) and then I felt a huge improvement and it lasts and feel great again and again to say that.

Edited August 26, 2021 by Nivsch

[Goldzilla]

Practice flying, there you have your response. 

Take a rope, find tree, hang from the rope, work out etc. Make a Swing, put a seat and enjoy. Is like flying at first. 

[Waken]

@Nivsch Ugh, I can imagine that's a challenging thing to have going. I feel with you there, I know it can be shit because my thinking has caused, and sometimes is still, causing a big mess. I looked on Youtube for a video on OCD, and could resonate with some points. Yes sure, feel free to write me, although I'm not sure if I'm able to help somewhat.

Well, I can get into what he says to a degree. I can share some of my new thoughts on dealing with the mind that came recently, that seem related to what you say. Recently, when working with some negative thoughts -well I already had the idea that arguing/debating with thoughts didn't really work lol- I still had some sort of thought/reaction to say something in response to a negative thought. The negative thought in this case was something like 'No I/you can't do that, that's irresponsible', and there was the idea that such thoughts, were like an expression of a part of me, and needed a response, such as 'well, I don't really think it's irresponsible because ....', and then another thought may come up as a response and it can just go on and on like that. But the idea came is that these thoughts don't need a thoughtful answer, or even be listened to and can just be completely ignored. No matter how many thoughts come up seeking to cause a big mess when they are chosen to be ignored. When they are ignored, maybe thoughts will come saying 'no I can't ignore these thoughts', 'maybe I have to listen to them because maybe there is value in them', blahblahblahblahblah, and maybe a big (emotional) mess gets made "by these thoughts". Perhaps some thoughts can be seen as expressions of something you believe and COULD be investigated or better feeling thoughts can be found for them, but the other thoughts (and other reactions from the mind and/or body) that seem to be there just to keep you buying into the story are not expressions of something of you and can be plainly ignored. Therefore, I can get the reaction of that therapist, because his suggested statement may give you a certain resolution like 'no I'm not going to listen to these devil thoughts, I'm going to choose what I prefer and not going to buy into thoughts that try to draw me in again'.

Yes I think that's good, that's how I do it too now, to not try to give love or support to the thoughts or inner child, but to you or to the one who reacts to it. Then at a later time the negative thought may come back somewhat again, and then you can again find a better feeling thought. I think that many (mental/emotional) problems in life can be solved though by just letting go more, not seeking or trying to make something happen, but to do in each moment what feels best. That is just letting go minus attempts to distract or numb yourself.

Edited August 27, 2021 by Waken

[The0Self]

The 2 most powerful simple Self-Love exercises, in my experience:

Metta, after getting pretty good and steady with it — though it may start out slow, it builds tremendously.

Staring at reflection in the mirror and telling yourself “I love you,” repeatedly, with ease and mindfulness.

Edited August 27, 2021 by The0Self

[Nivsch]

@Waken yes Just give love to myself when there is a thought and allow myself to react as i really want (do nothing about it).

And yes you are right, the debate with the thought will never succeed. 

In private i mean questions not so about ocd but about self love because i see you have a lot of experience with that. If i will have question and if its ok.

What you wrote really helps.

On 27.8.2021 at 6:03 AM, The0Self said:

Metta, after getting pretty good and steady with it — though it may start out slow, it builds tremendously.

I would like to hear an example of that. 

Edited August 28, 2021 by Nivsch

[hamedsf]

well, why do you think they tell you you should do a radical self-love (even towards bad parts of you) in order to improve yourself?

because radical self-love brings enormous self-acceptance. you can only change the mind program merely by accepting it to a significant degree.

and don't forget that self-acceptance is the first step, you should take the next step which is demonstrating behaviors that go against your former self!

only feeling something positive wouldn't help!