I strongly believe in God.

[Moksha]

25 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

Would be better that they believe in a religion, a new one maybe

Religion can have some benefits, but there is always a catch. You cannot awaken through beliefs, only through direct realization. The more engrained someone is in their beliefs, the less likely that they will be willing to let go of the mind, and realize that it is a cesspool of self-fulfilling suffering. For that reason, I see religion, and all belief structures, including spiral dynamics, as more of a hindrance than a help.

[Breakingthewall]

@Moksha I don't know, there could be a religion of non-duality that says: guys, don't be anxious, things are like this, like this and like that. don't try to understand it, you can't. If you feel like it, you can spend a thousand hours meditating and / or doing psychedelics and maybe you will see it, but if that does not go with you, when you are in the hospital dying, be sure that none of this is truly real, it is a kind of dream of the that you are going to wake up, have faith ...

It is true that believing in it without having experienced it is not of great value, but believing completely in materialism, like most people, does not offer you any alternative to the horror that the ego feels at the disappearance

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall I hear you, but is it actually a religion if the direct realization is that reality cannot be conceptually understood? If there are no beliefs, how can it be a religion? Self-realization is non-religion.

I'm not disparaging belief systems, per se. They help many people get through life, but at some point they can become self-defeating if they are clung to, rather than let go of. They are useful in the sense that people need to believe, but only until they no longer need to believe.

[Breakingthewall]

8 minutes ago, Moksha said:

but at some point they can become self-defeating if they are clung to, rather than let go of

It's true, but I see the people and their unconsciousness amazes me, they don't see that they are creating monstrous egos that are going to plunge them into horror. I have recently witnessed the agony of almost a year from a very intelligent but completely materialistic relative. a real well of darkness

Edited August 6, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

19 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

It's true, but I see the people and their unconsciousness amazes me, they don't see that they are creating monstrous egos that are going to plunge them into horror.

Being raised in a highly conservative religion, and even embracing it despite the damage, I am not amazed by the unconsciousness of others. I have been there myself, sincerely believing that I knew the truth. How can I judge others for being as unconscious as I was? Funny thing is, despite the self-sabotaging beliefs, I still had breakthroughs of pure non-conceptual realization. I'm sure the same is true for many people with religious beliefs. It is a journey, right?

[Breakingthewall]

@Moksha do you see? you had religious beliefs, and somehow you managed to untangle things and open up to the truth. But try talking about this with someone totally materialistic. He is going to think that you are retarded. anyway I think non-duality is going to become a religion. It seems to me something positive, it is much closer to reality than the traditional ones, which in their own way also contained truth

[Demeter]

On 04/08/2021 at 11:24 PM, Preety_India said:

I believe that God is here to teach us love and unity.

Although unity might not be possible, love is possible.

Believe in God and in his infinite grace.

Maybe to some people, God is the flying spaghetti thing. But God/godness is real, trust me, I have felt God many times in my life.

I have experienced God as infinite love, peace and mercy and hope.

2

Pretty words but you speak from a dualistic and hierarchical viewpoint. I don't think God wants to teach us anything. What would be the point of that? After all, if she generated us (prefer not to use the word create) from herself, she would be teaching herself would she not? And this thing about infinite grace - I have experienced the eternal void - it is stark, awesome and devoid of grace. Grace is not always present. Ask the Palestinians or the indigenous people of Myanmar if they feel the grace of God.

[Moksha]

7 minutes ago, Breakingthewall said:

you had religious beliefs, and somehow you managed to untangle things and open up to the truth. But try talking about this with someone totally materialistic. He is going to think that you are retarded. anyway I think non-duality is going to become a religion. It seems to me something positive, it is much closer to reality than the traditional ones, which in their own way also contained truth

I see materialism as just another belief system, a religion in its own right. Any devout believer, whether theological or materialistic, will reject the non-conceptual realization of reality. Consciousness can only be directly realized, and until it happens, it will be dismissed as nonsensical. Which, of course, it is 

[Breakingthewall]

43 minutes ago, Moksha said:

 

 

 

43 minutes ago, Moksha said:

Consciousness can only be directly realized, and until it happens, it will be dismissed as nonsensical. Which, of course, it is 

Yeah, all this is a real crazy nonsensical with all the sense... being without mental handholds, liberation, is a challenge for our conceptual minds, a very brave act

Edited August 7, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Moksha]

18 hours ago, Breakingthewall said:

Yeah, all this is a real crazy nonsensical with all the sense... being without mental handholds, liberation, is a challenge for our conceptual minds, a very brave act

Hard to say if it is bravery, or desperation. Probably both. When the suffering is intense enough, unclenching your death grip to the conditioned mind, and falling into the void of yourself, suddenly becomes the most sane option.

[Breakingthewall]

@Moksha of course It is the only option , but that does not mean that it is not brave. for me it is extremely difficult to let go, my fearful mind clings and wants to control, it does not shut up. I have to meditate for several hours a day to reach something like stillness and glimpses of void. I know that the talk does not make any sense, I perceive it as empty, but I am too fearful to be without it it seems

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall I hear you. Fear is the superglue of the ego. What if, realizing its proclamations are the source of suffering, we allow it to recede into the stratosphere? Barely audible radio chatter. Let it go all day long, from a distance of 10,000 feet. Why engage with it, when it has never brought you peace? The demon is comforting with its familiar phrases, but it is still a demon. Its promises of certainty are false. Let it rise into the sky, away from the attention of yourself, and eventually... ?

[Breakingthewall]

@Moksha i ignore him, it does not affect me (not long ago, months, it did), but there he continues without shutting up for a moment, saying increasingly incoherent things, just to keep talking even though nobody hears him. It is much better than the previous one, when it had power, but still it is annoying. It's my impossibility, for now, to stay without the voice, the vertigo of the void. I dream with the silence, it is my goal. Sure is bad idea to have goals, but turning off the radio is mine .

Thanks for the conversation Moksha, always is a pleasure to talk with you

Edited August 7, 2021 by Breakingthewall

[Gabith]

I believe in Me too !

[Moksha]

@Breakingthewall ? The radio will turn off, when the power goes out. Until then, is the noise all that bad, given the alternative? Following this form, there is endless silence, a blessing and a curse. For now, I choose the noise. It is scratchy like a vinyl record, imperfect but unique, compared to the soundless, depthless void that follows forever.

[Breakingthewall]

1 hour ago, Moksha said:

Until then, is the noise all that bad, given the alternative?

Not horrible but annoying, stressful and unnecessary. it dirties the mind, takes away clarity, prevents a direct appreciation of the world. I think life can be much more beautiful without it. finish of emitting and be able to fully receive

[Javfly33]

Does believing in God pays your bills? ?

[Gabith]

@Javfly33 It pays EVERYTHING

[Preety_India]

9 hours ago, Javfly33 said:

Does believing in God pays your bills? ?

Wanting to believe in God just so that God can pay your bills is kinda treating God like a cosmic Vending machine. 

God is no sugar daddy. 

 

[Goldzilla]

I strongly believe in God to. But the door is my own being, "he" is not separated from myself.