A web developer without a degree?

[Valach]

Hi there guys.
To introduce you to my story, I am 24 years old and 2 years ago I dropped out of my software engineering degree because I am was just stressed all the time and just couldnt finish it at all. Immidiatly after that I started working as a junior developer in job with very specific technologies which is not really related to other jobs so I kinda got stuck here.

For a long time I was just fucking around not doing anything in my free time which I regret. Eventhough I don't see my future in the field, I haven't discovered my life purpose yet, but I know for sure that I will need a finance safety net for the future ( nothing crazy, but like an average salary in my country ). For that I have decided that I want to pursue further career in web developent as sort of a life purpose for now. However I am not sure if lack of my formal education is not gonna hold me back too much for finding job opportunities etc.  I am not sure how to appraoch my situation and if I should go back to school or not. The thing with school is also that if I go back, my life will basically be full time working with no time for my friends & gf etc. Is there anyone here on this forum who has built a decent carreer in this field without a degree who could help me out? Much appriated.

[Leo Gura]

You don't need a degree if you have a strong portfolio.

Employers don't care about degrees, what they care about is your track record of results. If you can show them amazing results, they will hire you.

Put all your effort into building an amazing portfolio.

Nothing beats an amazing portfolio of work. If your portfolio is good enough you will be hired immediately.

[Andrea Marchetti]

Hi @Valach ! I feel you. I'd like to share a bit of my life with you, since I wished someone could have told me something about this kind of problems when I was younger and in your same situation, and I hope to not go off topic.

I don't have a career in web development. I've an high school specialised degree in computer science and it just gave me the basics. I was the best in my class, even teachers came to me to ask advices. Some of my peers continued to university, studying computer science, I've instead learned on my own object-oriented programming and built a few apps for smartphones. Of course the university provides a much deeper understanding about computers and programming than high school, but there's nothing like having fun in what you do when it comes to learn something new. This is particularly true in the field of computer science, where you can practice directly wherever you are, you just need a computer; most successful IT experts don't have a degree in IT but have thousands of hours of experience and a great curiosity for it. Usually people with an high degree in this field end up working for those who were just doing it for fun. And people hiring will look at your work, which you can easily show on computer, and not at your degrees. So don't be bothered by not studying officially in an university, if this is what you enjoy doing then just do it. 

But, it seems you don't really know what you want to do. So, as a 28 years old who is still into the same problem and wasted much of his younger years doing completely nothing on a material level, I vividly suggest you to do something, whatever, doesn't matter what. Something is better than nothing: I myself was stuck into thinking that the time to act was when I knew, for certain, what to do in my life, with no doubt; but this is most probably not going to happen. After a few years spent web-developing and developing apps (basically just for fun, never made a living out of it) I left the IT field and traveled the world, totally absorbed in my newly discovered world of psychedelia, before coming back and do nothing but surviving on the shoulders of my parents and experimenting with drugs. I've been alone for years, only meeting my ex-girlfriend every now and then, since she was studying abroad. Only in last 3 years I've started to do something: I couldn't stand to be lacking a clear target anymore, but at the same time I didn't know what to do and scared to try something new and to fail. I was getting delusional and had issues in socialising after years of isolation. So, first thing I did - and I suggest you to do it if you can - was to experience something new, to travel and explore new ways of living and meet new people, you can come to meet something you never even thought about (for example, if you're in Europe, do an Erasmus volunteering project). From there on, I came back to Italy and started studying philosophy away from home, in a big city; not very easy and natural for me as it was with programming. Anyway, there I met my actual girlfriend and discovered a deeper way to love, before dropping out from university. Came back to my hometown, since I felt I was loosing my time studying philosophy, and started a farming business with the help of my family, which still allows me to earn some money. Then resumed my studies in philosophy and I'm now quite determined to finish them. Now I guess I'm going to leave the farm (though growing vegetables is a wonderful thing to do) because it's hard work, working with my family is limiting me and I feel dissatisfied anyways. This winter I'll try to make a living from programming and creating media contents, etc... and at the same time I'll be traveling. I miss the contact with the new. As Leo said in one of his latest videos, be an opportunist. 

To conclude, any individual is different, so the ways in which life unfolds are unpredictable. But as far as I can see, there's an hidden and very powerful life force trying to express itself into the world, from within to without, in each of us. It just needs the right point of contact, the compromise between the inside and the outside. The mind cannot know it, especially when it has no experience about it: it can only realise a few thing as one gets older and see retrospectively; so just live it, don't think about it too much, ultimately there's no wrong choice you can take anyway. There's no warranty you'll ever come to express yourself in your lifetime, but at least try continuously. The life force already knows where you have to go, your job is to follow it. You might have a feeling of what this life force is trying to take you, let yourself feel it and maybe try to conceptualised it (conceptualisation is a double-edge sword though). Don't get stuck and afraid of changing something if you don't feel it true. Life, generally speaking, is a continuous trial and error and you're one of these trials. You're soon dead, really. 

I'll leave you with a quote from Steve Jobs. 

Quote

“You’ve got to find what you love. And that is as true for your work as it is for your lovers. Your work is going to fill a large part of your life, and the only way to be truly satisfied is to do what you believe is great work. And the only way to do great work is to love what you do. If you haven’t found it yet, keep looking. Don’t settle. As with all matters of the heart, you’ll know when you find it. And, like any great relationship, it just gets better and better as the years roll on. So keep looking until you find it. Don’t settle…

Your time is limited, so don’t waste it living someone else’s life. Don’t be trapped by dogma — which is living with the results of other people’s thinking. Don’t let the noise of others’ opinions drown out your own inner voice. And most important, have the courage to follow your heart and intuition. They somehow already know what you truly want to become. Everything else is secondary.”

 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Andrea Marchetti

[whatishappeningtome]

From the web developers I've met, you can go the more traditional route which is going to college and getting a degree (might be a good option for a directionless 18 year old) but I know people who managed to do very well working for massive silicon valley companies just by building a good portfolio like Leo suggested.

[Jacob Morres]

 

3 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

You don't need a degree if you have a strong portfolio.

Employers don't care about degrees, what they care about is your track record of results. If you can show them amazing results, they will hire you.

Put all your effort into building an amazing portfolio.

Nothing beats an amazing portfolio of work. If your portfolio is good enough you will be hired immediately.

for what it's worth, i got a job at a good startup because of a good portfolio and a recommendation (without showing a degree) 

but i do feel a good degree is useful? 

Edited August 4, 2021 by Jacob Morres

[SaltyMeatballs]

A degree is definitely useful but its not required. Just like Leo said, you need a solid portfolio.

I got my first Job because I released a high quality app on the Google play store which proved that I had solid Java / Kotlin experience. Also, I did a bunch of networking and met a girl who needed an MVP for her business. I created an app for her, free of charge (it took me about two weeks) and on my resume I added "Lead developer" for that startup.

Just those two things alone made me stand out much more than some graduate who did computer science degree. 

 

[impulse9]

Steve Jobs. Bill Gates. Zuckerberg. All without degree.

My opinion is you should get a degree if and only if you're getting one for the knowledge you'll gain acquiring it. Only idiots get a degree just to prove they got one.

As a developer myself, I can tell you that A LOT of people with degrees have no fucking skill whatsoever. And people without degrees tend to be those that got into it with a burning passion, and it shows. That said - the best programmer (by a factor of 10 or more) I've ever met has degrees up the wazoo. Bottom line is, don't underestimate degrees but also don't think that the degree is the point, because it's not. The point is knowledge.

[Gesundheit2]

12 hours ago, SaltyMeatballs said:

you need a solid portfolio.

What kind of portfolio? Does it have to be neat, like creative and unusual? Or just showing that I know the basics?

Also, is it more about quality or quantity? I'm sure it's about both, but which one alone would you say is more important?

@impulse9 I just recently started learning my first JS library (jQuery). It seems very easy and simple theoretically, but I still haven't made complete functioning websites, or even JS apps. What would you suggest for me at this point?

[impulse9]

Most developers stay away from jQuery at this point as the ES standard (which defines JavaScript) already includes most of its functionality, and better libraries exist for the functionality that it doesn't include (like tweening and event handling). That's not to say that it's wrong to use jQuery but let's just say it has lost its umph over the years. I would suggest you start at the basics, learn CSS and JS proper, and start making concrete websites and webapps until things clicks. Here's one good source to learning JavaScript: https://github.com/getify/You-Dont-Know-JS/blob/1st-ed/README.md

Edited August 9, 2021 by impulse9

[SaltyMeatballs]

On 8/9/2021 at 7:54 AM, Gesundheit2 said:

What kind of portfolio? Does it have to be neat, like creative and unusual? Or just showing that I know the basics?

Also, is it more about quality or quantity? I'm sure it's about both, but which one alone would you say is more important?

@impulse9 I just recently started learning my first JS library (jQuery). It seems very easy and simple theoretically, but I still haven't made complete functioning websites, or even JS apps. What would you suggest for me at this point?

@Gesundheit2 The best portfolio will be created by your creativity and passion. Try to think of something that you actually want to create. For me it was building a productivity app. For you it could be a blog or simple game. Doesn't matter what it is, as long as it EXCITES YOU! Don't build something that you don't want. It will be trashy.

Once you have a juicy project idea begin to execute on it daily. I recommend that you learn and use modern tech stacks. One such example is MEAN (MongoDB, Express, Angular and Node). A good way to find out what skills are in demand is to look at the job listing. What required skills have been listed for that position?

If you are really struggling, you can always hire a tutor. They are not too expensive, I used a platform called preply.com where i was paying $10 an hour. 

If your going to buy a course on programming, do it with the intention of learning the skills and applying them to YOUR PROJECT. Simply watching somebody else code and following them along is really ineffective in my experience.