Balance between effort and surrender?

[Mason Riggle]

20 hours ago, Hulia said:

@Mason Riggle Don´t you see , that your theory is leaking? 

You made quite a lot of effort in an elementary school to read the sentence effortlessly today.

It's not leaking and it's not a theory. It can be directly noticed that I am myself without trying to be. 

How hard do you think a tree has to try to grow its leaves? How much effort are trees exerting? Some or none? Could a tree 'stop trying to be a tree'? No, because it's not trying to be one to begin with. 

I challenge you to try not to be yourself right now.. You can't. Anything you do is 'being yourself'.. you're literally always 'being yourself' without ever trying to. Trying not to be like yourself is exactly the same thing as trying to be like yourself. 

If you are trying to be how you are being, you should be able to stop trying, but you can't... how would you stop trying? By trying to? 

Trying/Not Trying is an illusion. There is only being. 

 

 

[James12345]

@Giulio Bevilacqua when you completely surrender, that will be perfect balance.

[The0Self]

More alignment with true nature -> desire for more alignment -> more joyful effort arises effortlessly.

Don't strain or strive too much -- don't get too complacent either.

[Waken]

From 1:20 your question is answered by Bashar. Love listening to him. 'you don't need to make it work, the machine works. Let it work, let it work'

[Mason Riggle]

@Waken ?

 

One literally can not interfere with how reality is occurring.

Any attempt to change how things are happening is just more 'how things are happening'. 

?

[Hulia]

@Mason Riggle

But the question was not about being or not being myself. The question was about, when the effort is necessary and when we can do without it.

1 hour ago, Mason Riggle said:

How hard do you think a tree has to try to grow its leaves? How much effort are trees exerting? Some or none?

The comparison is just wrong! People are not trees! Though even trees are working hard to survive among other trees, vermins, bad weather condition, poor earth quality... They make quite an effort, poor trees. 

[The0Self]

19 minutes ago, Hulia said:

when the effort is necessary and when we can do without it.

As far as spiritual practice is concerned? Until there is effortless peace and liberation, effort can be applied to meditative, contemplative pursuits. One very effective method is the following method of surrender: applying effort/intention toward releasing (relaxing and ignoring) any intention/effort that is noticed, except for the intention/effort to do just that -- letting go of any intention/effort that is noticed... Until that itself is the only intention/effort left, at which point it can be let go of as well.

Self inquiry works in almost exactly the same way, but instead of releasing intention, you release attention from any object that arises by (attempting) turning toward the subject. Then let go of the subject when only it is left.

Done repeatedly. For absolutely any object experienced in the case of self inquiry. Or in the case of surrender, for any intention noticed.

Both methods require constant effort, until they don't.

Edited August 7, 2021 by The0Self

[Hulia]

39 minutes ago, The0Self said:

As far as spiritual practice is concerned? Until there is effortless peace and liberation, effort can be applied to meditative, contemplative pursuits. One very effective method is the following method of surrender: applying effort/intention toward releasing (relaxing and ignoring) any intention/effort that is noticed, except for the intention/effort to do just that -- letting go of any intention/effort that is noticed... Until that itself is the only intention/effort left, at which point it can be let go of as well.

Self inquiry works in almost exactly the same way, but instead of releasing intention, you release attention from any object that arises by (attempting) turning toward the subject. Then let go of the subject when only it is left.

Done repeatedly. For absolutely any object experienced in the case of self inquiry. Or in the case of surrender, for any intention noticed.

Both methods require constant effort, until they don't.

I´ll try. Release intention and release attention. It´s all about object... If I turn my attention away from the object, there will be also no intention. No attention - no intention. 

But then.. what shall I do with the attention?

"turning towards the subject"? Who is the subject? Doesn´t subject predetermine object?

Though attention without intention would be even nicer.

I always get confused when I think in words.

Edited August 7, 2021 by Hulia

[The0Self]

23 minutes ago, Hulia said:

"turning towards the subject"? Who is the subject? Doesn´t subject predetermine object?

You ignore / turn away from the object by attempting to turn toward its subject. You can't actually find the subject, since if you did, it would just be another object -- you just attempt to find it, merely as a means of turning away from all objects (all experience), including even subtle objects such as stillness, blankness, and anything that can be noticed.

[Waken]

54 minutes ago, The0Self said:

Self inquiry works in almost exactly the same way, but instead of releasing intention, you release attention from any object that arises by (attempting) turning toward the subject. Then let go of the subject when only it is left.

But if this method is taken up by someone who actually doesn't feel like doing it because he's trying to make it happen, it actually is resistance and therefore not really the same as letting go of control

@Mason Riggle Love it 

Edited August 7, 2021 by Waken

[The0Self]

9 hours ago, Waken said:

But if this method is taken up by someone who actually doesn't feel like doing it because he's trying to make it happen, it actually is resistance and therefore not really the same as letting go of control

Sure, but they can’t actually let go of control if there is any reason to do the practice, so they can be honest about that control, get it out of the dark, and apply that control to letting go of any intentions that are both available to be noticed and available to be let go of. Situating and getting cozy in the space between action and inaction.

[Giulio Bevilacqua]

19 hours ago, James12345 said:

@Giulio Bevilacqua when you completely surrender, that will be perfect balance.

I agree

 

19 hours ago, Waken said:

From 1:20 your question is answered by Bashar. Love listening to him. 'you don't need to make it work, the machine works. Let it work, let it work'

Yes totally agree