Statement About Enlightenment

[wavydude]

https://www.twitch.tv/athenelive/v/103521422  

Lisent to his answer to question  in 1:42:00 

Do you agree with that ? Any thoughts ?

[Martin123]

Sounds compulsive. I like Athene, he's smart, but I disagree with his views on enlightenment.

edit: I think you can reach both, great efficiency and effectivity, while "your reward center being connected to being". Logic seems to me like a compulsive need to always maximize the outcome of everything.

Also what puts me off is his arrogant tone. It is strange, he does talk about not identifying yourself with your story, but yet it seems he has glorified his ego in a way. Which makes sense because his aim is not ego-transcendence, so I guess that is completely fine. But yet can't help but notice that arrogant layer in his speech and it makes me wonder, whether there wouldn't be a better way of communicating his truths and views! :-)

Edited November 27, 2016 by Martin123

[wavydude]

On 11/27/2016 at 1:33 PM, Martin123 said:

Logic seems to me like a compulsive need to always maximize the outcome of everything.
 

It's not compulsive, quite contrary it's the most natural thing. After all it's the force that  made  consciousness develop from one cell organisms to such complex structures as humans, it is what allows all the evolutional progress and it is what allow us to have this discussion right now on the internet which is product of development driven by logic. Also it is most likely thing that will make consciousness develop from what it is right now(humanity)  to higher forms.

 

On 11/27/2016 at 1:33 PM, Martin123 said:

Also what puts me off is his arrogant tone. It is strange, he does talk about not identifying yourself with your story, but yet it seems he has glorified his ego in a way. 

Don't be prejudiced. From what I understand from his other talks he's very aware of his arrogant approach but he does this becouse he simply believes it's the most effective way of spreading the message to low conscious people. And his main goal is spreading this awareness.

[Infinitesimal]

His point of attaching reward centers to the brain to existing had me taken for a moment. Then I remembered enlightenment work is painful. 

[wavydude]

It's not about enlightenment work. It's about what people describe as "feeling connected with the being", I have seen anyone describe that as painful yet.

[Martin123]

@wavydude I said I like Athene. I said I don't like how he does things. 
Your points don't make sense. It doesn't matter whether he is or isn't aware of his arrogance. I don't get to chat with him irl, neither I feel the urge. The way he expresses his ideas, however noble, doesn't vibe with me.
Does that mean what he's doing is bad or wrong or pointless? No there is a lot of value, he is making a contribution, he raised money for dem childs in Africa, he's a great dude.

[Martin123]

6 hours ago, wavydude said:

It's not compulsive, quite contrary it's the most natural thing. After all it's the force that  made  consciousness develop from one cell organisms to such complex structures as humans, it is what allows all the evolutional progress and it is what allow us to have this discussion right now on the internet which is product of development driven by logic. Also it is most likely thing that will make consciousness develop from what it is right now(humanity)  to higher forms.

You don't make consciousness evolve from one thing to another, consciousness is all what is. Consciousness is the evolving. Consciousness is superior to logic. There's nothing that's "making consciousness do stuff".

[wavydude]

4 hours ago, Martin123 said:

@wavydude I said I like Athene. I said I don't like how he does things. 
Your points don't make sense. 

It makes prefect sense at least to me. Why you act like I'm trying to convince to his ideas, I just explained why you don't vibe with him.
disclamer: I'm not trying to convince people to his ideas etc. I just found his work really interesting and wanted to spark debate on that hoping that someone on this forum might know him and his recent talks (also "the click" concept).

 

4 hours ago, Martin123 said:

You don't make consciousness evolve from one thing to another, consciousness is all what is. Consciousness is the evolving. Consciousness is superior to logic. There's nothing that's "making consciousness do stuff".

That's depends on your definition of consciousness, I think you know what I meant.  Clearly there must have been some mechanism that allowed matter to evolve into humans that are self aware. That mechanism is logic. Acting based on logic allows to evolve further.

[Martin123]

12 hours ago, wavydude said:

 

1 hour ago, wavydude said:

That's depends on your definition of consciousness, I think you know what I meant.  Clearly there must have been some mechanism that allowed matter to evolve into humans that are self aware. That mechanism is logic. Acting based on logic allows to evolve further.

Well we can play with words all we want, language is limiting. Very. The evolution though is happening to "matter", "world of form", consciousness is untouched. That is the frame I am coming from. 
Why would you assume there needs to be a mechanism that "allows matter to evolve" ? Aka, you are separating logic from matter, logic belongs to the mind, mind belongs to the world of form, mind doesn't equal consciousness.