The Social Matrix was a tour de force, but had issues

[MartinGifford]

This video was a tour-de-force! It’s something that the whole world needs to see. But I found 7 points I disagree with. My view is that society is fully to blame for our problems. This seemed to be what Leo was arguing too, but then he started criticising people. That is exactly what society does. So I don’t get why Leo switched from criticising the social matrix to criticising people. Anyway, here are the 7 points of disagreement:

• At 1:28:00 he said it's all based on survival. It's not. Once basic survival needs are fulfilled, the social matrix is based on illusory forms of happiness such as possessions, prestige, power, and money. This distracts us away from the innate happiness and goodwill of being, and so we get trapped in competition.
• At 1:47:00 he said that it's hard to break free of the social matrix. That idea is part of the social matrix! Everyone says, "Questioning things is hard, which is why no one has found the big answers to life." In reality, it’s easy.
• At 1:59:00 he says that people are mentally lazy. That criticism is part of the social matrix. Essentially, the social matrix says, "People are weak, immoral, and lazy." We got those ideas from society.
• At 2:24:00, he talks about creating a "collective hive mind". Why? I don’t want to be part of a collective hive mind. We are not dependent on such outcomes.
• At 2:46:00, he attacks our "selfishness and egotism". The social matrix criticises those things too. But there's nothing wrong with individuals. The social matrix is the only problem. Sure, individuals must be turned around to face reality, but it should be through encouragement and insight, not criticism.
• At 2:53:00, he suggests we read books and whatnot. But he said the books come from the social matrix, so it doesn’t make sense. We only need to question what's arising within.
• Towards the end, he went on a tirade about how bad we are. That’s just channelling society again.

If we fully complete the enquiry, we would come to the conclusion that nothing is wrong with people. The problem is entirely that we were born into a deluded social world that says we are lacking and flawed, and must seek happiness. That distracts us away from the innate happiness and goodwill of being.

[Leo Gura]

You have much to learn about how the mind works.

If you really want to understand, make a deep study of my other videos.

[MartinGifford]

13 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

You have much to learn about how the mind works.

If you really want to understand, make a deep study of my other videos.

That's a bit vague. It would be simpler to discuss my statements rather than asking me to wade through your videos.

[Leo Gura]

Yeah, well, that's not how this works. If you wanna comprehend reality at the levels I'm talking about, you gonna have to do years of work.

I can't summarize hundreds of hours of content for you in this thread.

The things I said in the Social Matrix episode were extremely advanced. I actually sorta regret it now because the noobs who watch that episode think they comprehend what I said when they have no idea. They are just gonna use it to reinforce their fave conspiracy theories and anti-elitism -- which is all BS.

[7thLetter]

47 minutes ago, Leo Gura said:

They are just gonna use it to reinforce their fave conspiracy theories and anti-elitism -- which is all BS.

I think Leo here is talking about my recent 'anti-vaxx' thread that he locked 

To be honest though, the decision to lock the thread seemed like it was in favor of survival or the social matrix that you're talking about. But oh well, we're all apart of the social matrix and it's nearly impossible for us to completely escape.

Although the thread certainly was conspiratorial, so I can't deny that.

I actually am considering taking the vaxx at some point, I just don't know when.

Edited August 2, 2021 by 7thLetter

[Osaid]

 

1 hour ago, MartinGifford said:

That's a bit vague

More specifically, I would recommend watching Leo's videos about survival/ego. They go very deep and are related to your questions.

[RendHeaven]

4 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

At 1:28:00 he said it's all based on survival. It's not. Once basic survival needs are fulfilled, the social matrix is based on illusory forms of happiness such as possessions, prestige, power, and money. This distracts us away from the innate happiness and goodwill of being, and so we get trapped in competition.

He means much more than biological/physical survival when he says survival. He moreso means the psychological survival of your self-image.

4 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

At 1:47:00 he said that it's hard to break free of the social matrix. That idea is part of the social matrix! Everyone says, "Questioning things is hard, which is why no one has found the big answers to life." In reality, it’s easy.

I mean I guess, but unless you are actually "free" of the social matrix right now in this moment, escape appears difficult. So the contention here isn't too meaningful.

4 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

At 1:59:00 he says that people are mentally lazy. That criticism is part of the social matrix. Essentially, the social matrix says, "People are weak, immoral, and lazy." We got those ideas from society.

Untrue. You can empirically observe laziness using your own two eyes. Especially in yourself.

I cannot tell you how many times I've set a simple mundane task to accomplish where I've failed to even start it.

You can play fancy mental gymnastics about how societal conditioning is the cause of my inaction or whatnot, but the case remains that I was lazy. And blaming someone else for my laziness is just a further perpetuation of my own laziness!

4 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

At 2:24:00, he talks about creating a "collective hive mind". Why? I don’t want to be part of a collective hive mind. We are not dependent on such outcomes.

You like your individuality huh

4 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

At 2:46:00, he attacks our "selfishness and egotism". The social matrix criticises those things too. But there's nothing wrong with individuals. The social matrix is the only problem. Sure, individuals must be turned around to face reality, but it should be through encouragement and insight, not criticism.

The fact that you took that as an attack is telling. I see no attack.

Leo literally states that selfishness prevents you from realizing Truth. That's a very neutral statement. Dare I say a true statement!

The idea of "wrong" is being projected by you, because (as far as I can tell) you seem to like your individuality and you don't want to let go of it.

Notice that Leo never said anything about right or wrong in the entire episode.

4 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

At 2:53:00, he suggests we read books and whatnot. But he said the books come from the social matrix, so it doesn’t make sense. We only need to question what's arising within.

That's quite an arrogant stance, don'tcha think?

In your scurry to abandon the social matrix, there's always the danger of just driving yourself deeper and deeper into your own delusions, as you cut off sources that could've helped you check yourself.

I would be very careful before assuming that I know better than society.

There's something very noble and wise about studying society generously and adequately before leaving it behind - as opposed to the foolish alternative of just saying "to hell with it all" without even bothering to investigate.

4 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

Towards the end, he went on a tirade about how bad we are. That’s just channelling society again.

Or, maybe you really are selfish and biased. Worth investigating

Edited August 2, 2021 by RendHeaven

[RendHeaven]

4 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

My view is that society is fully to blame for our problems.

Ah, there it is. Your selfish bias

4 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

If we fully complete the enquiry, we would come to the conclusion that nothing is wrong with people. The problem is entirely that we were born into a deluded social world that says we are lacking and flawed, and must seek happiness.

Sounds like you like Rousseau lol

Consider that there is no difference between your individual human identity and the "deluded social world."

The two are intermeshed inseparably.

To leave the social world is to leave your individuality.

4 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

That distracts us away from the innate happiness and goodwill of being.

This is excellent.

Just notice how you distract yourself as well.

Edited August 2, 2021 by RendHeaven

[Loving Radiance]

5 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

At 1:47:00 he said that it's hard to break free of the social matrix. That idea is part of the social matrix! Everyone says, "Questioning things is hard, which is why no one has found the big answers to life." In reality, it’s easy.

If you grew up in the social matrix, it is still in your perspective. It takes time to decondition yourself from the social matrix & human bias and that makes it hard to question.

5 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

At 1:59:00 he says that people are mentally lazy. That criticism is part of the social matrix. Essentially, the social matrix says, "People are weak, immoral, and lazy." We got those ideas from society.

The statement you got in quotes describes another kind of lazy. It's like using the statement "This kind of ice cream is free of milk and added flavors." and then saying that ice cream is unhealthy because of the sugar content. Both are true in a sense but they aren't said in the same context.

5 hours ago, MartinGifford said:

At 2:24:00, he talks about creating a "collective hive mind". Why? I don’t want to be part of a collective hive mind. We are not dependent on such outcomes.

Then don't participate in that thing.

[MartinGifford]

5 hours ago, Leo Gura said:

The things I said in the Social Matrix episode were extremely advanced. I actually sorta regret it now because the noobs who watch that episode think they comprehend what I said when they have no idea. They are just gonna use it to reinforce their fave conspiracy theories and anti-elitism -- which is all BS.

Repeating societal judgements of people doesn't seem to be "extremely advanced". Have you ever questioned those judgements of your fellow human beings? Society says we are lacking and flawed, then it pushes us to compete against ourselves and others for transitory forms of happiness. So we forget our innate happiness and goodwill, and start competing for transitory forms of happiness, which leads to harm. Then society says, "See? You are lacking and flawed." So the social context caused our problems and then judges us for it. Society is obviously the problem. Consider these questions:

1. Why are all the animals in the universe considered to be cool in their own ways, but human beings are believed to be lacking and flawed? Doesn't it seem suspicious and statistically unlikely?
2. If you and I had been born on a super-developed utopian planet, would we have any of the personal and social problems that we have on Earth?
3. If humankind continues to improve, will the current kinds of personal or social problems still exist in the year 10,000?

Pointing out society's illusions isn't a conspiracy theory. No one consciously created the illusions. In humankind's deep past, no one had a clue what was going on, so they probably just made quick judgements to maintain order. But now we have the time and opportunity to question those cave-person judgements.

Edited August 2, 2021 by MartinGifford

[7thLetter]

A comment about the video, it seems only to be a mental masturbation video rather than anything else.

It does present an achievable destination that we may strive towards, which I believe is to reach a point where we become completely independent with little to no involvement in society, living off the grid perhaps.

It’s either that or the whole point of the video is just to see beyond the illusions that society creates, which Leo admits is the mother of all conspiracy theories. Which again I’d say is just pure mental masturbation.

Cool ideas that we understand on an intellectual level but we all know no one here is truly going to live that lifestyle of complete independence, and not even Leo either probably. Leo justifies his part in the social matrix in the video when he talks about the fact that he’s on Youtube and how living in the forest on your own is a pipe dream.

My point overall, mental masturbation. The social matrix is survival, and there’s no escaping it. But to say its absolutely impossible to escape is an excuse. Anyone can drop everything and go live out in the wilderness on their own. Humans have been doing it for ages. We’re just too stuck in our zone of comfort.

[RendHeaven]

@7thLetter The "social matrix" that Leo speaks of is not merely a physical/activity-level participation, but rather a conceptual/idea-level participation.

Even the most fundamental idea of being a human in a material world that was born and will die is "part of the social matrix."

Even if you escape into a cave in the wilderness or something to "reclaim your sovereignty," so long as you believe yourself to be a human being, you're still participating in the social matrix.

Ultimately, the social matrix is not meant to be escaped or rejected but rather observed in silence for its titanic influence. With proper awareness, you become free to dance in-and-out of it periodically, a feat which prior to awareness was not an option.

Edited August 2, 2021 by RendHeaven

[Windappreciator]

@MartinGifford  

What are you trying to preserve here? What are you escaping?

You are trying to escape implications about your world view the video invoked. 

What is the point of this thread, it all hardly scratches any point made in the video.

Why do you have to be pussy about it?

Edited August 2, 2021 by Windappreciator

[MartinGifford]

@RendHeaven

Ego can melt if or it can be smashed. The melting version is easy and pleasant.

Escape from the matrix appears difficult if you miss it’s essence, which is the idea that human beings are lacking and flawed. That idea stops progress because we are trying to overcome illusory problems rather than questioning the belief.

Seeming laziness has many causes, so I need a specific example to analyse it. But look at human being’s actual lives. They go to school for 6 hours per day for 12 years, then they go to university or work for 40 hours per week doing horrible repetitive tasks, then they raise kids, which verges on the heroic. Our judgement of people is ridiculous.

Regarding the hive mind, why would I want to submit to other people’s deluded agendas?

Judging our supposed “selfishness and egotism” is an “attack”. I also called it a “criticism”.

• Definition of attack: “criticize or oppose fiercely and publicly.”
• Definition of criticism: “the expression of disapproval of someone or something on the basis of perceived faults or mistakes.”
• Definition of selfishness: “lack of consideration for other people”.
• Definition of egotism: “the fact of being excessively conceited or absorbed in oneself.”

These are obviously negative judgements. Wrongness is implied.

You wrote, “In your scurry to abandon the social matrix, there's always the danger of just driving yourself deeper and deeper into your own delusions…”

But I wrote “We only need to question what's arising within.” That obviously includes questioning the motivation and assumptions behind abandoning society.

You say that I might be selfish, biased, arrogant. These are just societal judgements, and they could be applied to yourself and Leo (see his comments to me in this thread), although I think everyone is ultimately innocent and perfect. Consider NDE's: Once people are free of the instinctual body and society, they suddenly become wise and loving.

[MartinGifford]

19 minutes ago, Windappreciator said:

You are trying to escape implications about your world view the video invoked. 

What is the point of this thread, it all hardly scratches any point made in the video.

Why do you have to be pussy about it?

I agreed with about 2.5 hours of the video. I'm just taking Leo's point to its logical conclusion. If society's brainwashing is overwhelming, then we need to question it all the way, not keep its judgements of human beings.

It's about understanding facts, not being a pussy. If it's true that society's illusions created all our problems, then we have the solution - end the illusions, which mainly includes the idea that human beings are lacking and flawed.

Edited August 2, 2021 by MartinGifford

[RendHeaven]

14 minutes ago, MartinGifford said:

But I wrote “We only need to question what's arising within.” That obviously includes questioning the motivation and assumptions behind abandoning society.

14 minutes ago, MartinGifford said:

Regarding the hive mind, why would I want to submit to other people’s deluded agendas?

Haha maybe question motivations + assumptions some more... it's so obvious that you have a massive pain point about society, you're fighting tooth and nail to separate society from the individual, demonizing the former and glorifying the latter. This reeks of self-bias, exactly what Leo was warning about.

Until you see that SOCIETY = EVERYTHING YOU CONSIDER TO BE YOU, you're being dismissive and hasty.

A proper exit from the social matrix is effortless and involves no battle. In fact, the one who has ascended the social matrix properly is precisely the one who cares not whether he participates in it.

14 minutes ago, MartinGifford said:

You say that I might be selfish, biased, arrogant.

Yes, you really think you're an individual separable from "others people" around you LOL

14 minutes ago, MartinGifford said:

These are just societal judgements

Sounds defensive. What if these dreaded "societal judgements" actually contained kernels of truth? Are you open to that?

14 minutes ago, MartinGifford said:

although I think everyone is ultimately innocent and perfect.

Yes, and this perfection includes the acknowledgement (rather than denial) of personal egoic tendencies + love for the "social matrix."

Edited August 2, 2021 by RendHeaven

[Gesundheit2]

@MartinGifford I haven't watched the video and don't plan on doing so. I don't consider Leo to be socially awake, tbh. He's still deeply enmeshed in the illusion, imo. And from what you have written here, you don't seem that awake either. Sorry for being this brash, but there's no way I can share what I have awoken to. But you can awaken if you apply what you're suggesting. End all illusions through questioning, not through argument.

[Windappreciator]

28 minutes ago, MartinGifford said:

I agreed with about 2.5 hours of the video. I'm just taking Leo's point to its logical conclusion. If society's brainwashing is overwhelming, then we need to question it all the way, not keep its judgements of human beings.

It's about understanding facts, not being a pussy. If it's true that society's illusions created all our problems, then we have the solution - end the illusions, which mainly includes the idea that human beings are lacking and flawed.

You're not really questioning anything of relevance to the videos legitimacy, in my view.

It would be a surprise if you had actually found something and  I would welcome to learn from you.

Is this really news to you, that our suffering is self opposed and that we hold the key to stopping it?

Do you understand that stopping our suffering is painful process for most people who are no willing to take the step because of selfishness?

Edited August 2, 2021 by Windappreciator

[MartinGifford]

36 minutes ago, RendHeaven said:

1. it's so obvious that you have a massive pain point about society,
2. you're fighting tooth and nail to separate society from the individual, demonizing the former and glorifying the latter.
3. Until you see that SOCIETY = EVERYTHING YOU CONSIDER TO BE YOU, you're being dismissive and hasty.
4. the one who has ascended the social matrix properly is precisely the one who cares not whether he participates in it.
5. Yes, you really think you're an individual separable from "others people" around you LOL
6. What if these dreaded "societal judgements" actually contained kernels of truth? Are you open to that?

1. I have no pain point about society. I just searched for the cause of human suffering, and I found it.
2. I'm not demonising society. I'm just saying that it contains the illusion that human beings are lacking and flawed, and that it pushes us to judge and chase illusions. Everything else about society is good.
3. Can you prove that "society = everything you consider to be you"? Seems to be a huge claim.
4. Participating in society's illusions just perpetuates human suffering.
5. I'm not 100% sure if I'm separate from others or not. I know there's a common religious/spiritual belief that people are not separate, but why believe that?
6. I was completely open to any possibility. But after rigorous investigation, I found that societal judgements are false. Are you open to the possibility that I'm right and not some clueless schmuck?

 

[MartinGifford]

42 minutes ago, Gesundheit2 said:

there's no way I can share what I have awoken to

Didn't your awakening include the ability to communicate? For example, if you awoke to God, then God is powerful and can communicate. If you woke to something less than God, then how do you know your awakening is the ultimate?