Leo's incommunicable insights

[Tim R]

He says:

"There's almost nobody in the world who I can communicate with, that is conscious enough to be able to understand the deepest insights that I've had about reality. And this has presented a problem for me, because in the past I was able to share those, they were at the level of communication, I was able to share those with you. But now I'm getting the point where I can't even share them with you anymore. And lately my insights have become so profound that I started to realize and sort of come to face to face with the prospect that I won't ever be able to share them with any other human in the universe. I try but - and there's different levels of insight that I have - but the highest levels basically are going to be completely unshareable and I've had to resign myself to that."

Ok @Leo Gura but I have to ask anyway - and I obviously don't expect you to actually communicate the insight itself - but is there any chance you could try to hint at what you mean? I thought you've reached the deepest stages with your "outrageous experiments in consciousness"? Or are you talking about new insights you've had since then? 

Also... does this have something to do with the new psychedelic you mentioned at the end of your video "an advanced explanation of god-realization"? And when will you share it with us?

[Windappreciator]

@Leo Gura This is a good reason to work on deepening empathy to share them via feelings.

Jump into turquoise, Leo.

Edited August 1, 2021 by Windappreciator

[erik8lrl]

The highest truths have no point in communication. It is pointless because they are truly infinite/non-dual. It's like saying something to yourself who already knows it, who IS it. If you are the only one in existence, then you are all that is/is not. There will be nothing to say since it just loops infinitely without end. The highest truth is wordless, it's just absolute beingness/love. The truer the truth, the more abstract and non-dual it is, the harder it is to communicate since communication is always dual.    

Edited August 1, 2021 by erik8lrl

[Thought Art]

Lol, try reading the book of revelations. It makes no sense.

[mandyjw]

Do you really believe that the actual experience of eating an ice cream cone is communicable? 

[LastThursday]

@mandyjw It's communicable, just not transferrable. You'd have to communicate to "go eat your own ice cream cone" to get close enough. Even then it's not verifiable that you're sharing a similar experience. Most probably not.

4 hours ago, Tim R said:

And lately my insights have become so profound that I started to realize and sort of come to face to face with the prospect that I won't ever be able to share them with any other human in the universe.

Of course, that realisation is just guesswork on Leo's part. It's a little bit of "no one will ever understand me" type of melodramatic talk you get sometimes. Naturally he can share them if he wants, there's nothing to stop him. Who cares about being understood? You won't know if someone understands you or not, especially with an audience of millions. You just have to communicate and hope for the best, it's the best that can be done.

[Purple Man]

Christopher Bache, former university professor, one of the bravest psychonauts of all time, and writer of the life-changing book "Diamonds from heaven" (a wonderful account of his experiences with LSD) , usually talks about "ineffability" as an overrated charachteristic of the deep mystical experience. 

He has a very solid intellectual background and was tremendously methodic, writing every experience detail for years, so this has helped him being able to capture the metaphysical experience with words. But no doubt, there are experiences where language, even if you´re good with it, pales, or becomes a simplistic set of tags for the unitiated to have a vague idea of what that experience really means. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by Purple Man

[WelcometoReality]

5 hours ago, Tim R said:

But now I'm getting the point where I can't even share them with you anymore. And lately my insights have become so profound that I started to realize and sort of come to face to face with the prospect that I won't ever be able to share them with any other human in the universe. I try but - and there's different levels of insight that I have - but the highest levels basically are going to be completely unshareable and I've had to resign myself to that."

@Leo Gura That's nice Leo.  Maybe sharing the embodiment of your realizations is even better. ?

[BipolarGrowth]

You could never explain this shit. To most people if I tell them I put a mixed Jhana lock on my reality there’s no way they understand specifically what I mean even if they know jhanas very well

[gettoefl]

54 minutes ago, LastThursday said:

@mandyjw It's communicable, just not transferrable. You'd have to communicate to "go eat your own ice cream cone" to get close enough. Even then it's not verifiable that you're sharing a similar experience. Most probably not.

Of course, that realisation is just guesswork on Leo's part. It's a little bit of "no one will ever understand me" type of melodramatic talk you get sometimes. Naturally he can share them if he wants, there's nothing to stop him. Who cares about being understood? You won't know if someone understands you or not, especially with an audience of millions. You just have to communicate and hope for the best, it's the best that can be done.

you are being a little uncharitable or perhaps naive

first, truth is far beyond language and words, words do a very poor job of transcribing or explicating

second no matter how deep you go with truth even beyond where anyone else has possibly gone, there is still infinitely more precipices to scale, that's the nature of truth, you will never get done with it

@Tim R

Edited August 1, 2021 by gettoefl

[mandyjw]

1 hour ago, LastThursday said:

@mandyjw It's communicable, just not transferrable. You'd have to communicate to "go eat your own ice cream cone" to get close enough. Even then it's not verifiable that you're sharing a similar experience. Most probably not.

The communication of it is another experience unto itself. Communication is possible because of what's already shared. Words like tongue or cold or sweet only have meaning because they are assumedly shared. In order to teach or learn from another the other has to collapse into the shared, the prior to separation. There cannot be a believed separation in one who got it and one who hasn't yet for there to be any transfer or transmission. You seek the truth out of your love of it, and love is the only teaching, love is self explanatory. 

Edited August 1, 2021 by mandyjw

[Daniel347]

6 hours ago, Tim R said:

Also... does this have something to do with the new psychedelic you mentioned at the end of your video "an advanced explanation of god-realization"? And when will you share it with us?

very curious about this as well =)

[Nahm]

Insight is incommunicable became it’s spontaneously (‘now’) made up / isn’t actual / there’s nothing ‘there’ actually being pointed to. Could be said the variable is believing the arising thoughts or not, but that isn’t insightful at all. 

[LastThursday]

4 hours ago, gettoefl said:

you are being a little uncharitable or perhaps naive

first, truth is far beyond language and words, words do a very poor job of transcribing or explicating

second no matter how deep you go with truth even beyond where anyone else has possibly gone, there is still infinitely more precipices to scale, that's the nature of truth, you will never get done with it

@Tim R

And likewise, you are being a little uncharitable and naive. "Truth" is a word no? It is all language and words. Using words to tell me otherwise just doesn't wash. Whatever precipices are being scaled (nice metaphor) it has nothing to do with the word "truth". Truth is just a convenient label to slap on an experience, so you can communicate some aspect of it to someone else.

3 hours ago, mandyjw said:

Communication is possible because of what's already shared. Words like tongue or cold or sweet only have meaning because they are assumedly shared.

Exactly it. Which is why there shouldn't be pessimism about communicating profound experiences. This is my entire point. You have to assume there's even a remote possibility of a shared experience (prior to separation as you say) otherwise you wouldn't bother to communicate at all. Leo needn't be so dramatic and pessimistic about it:

10 hours ago, Tim R said:

"There's almost nobody in the world who I can communicate with, that is conscious enough to be able to understand the deepest insights that I've had about reality.

By doing so, he is artificically separating himself out from the rest of humanity.

[mandyjw]

@LastThursday ?

[Gianna]

We can never know if any of our communication is actually, truly, and genuinely transmitted to another person in the way we intend; in the way that we feel. We are trying to communicate felt perception in a world where people are cut off from their deepest layers of feeling– the deepest experience of what they are. How can you be sure if anything you say is consistent with what other people understand? Leo is trying to connect with people who are operating at different levels of the universe, in parallel realities. Even if something seems easily understood/transmitted, you never know the parallel reality someone may potentially be living in. This is a very depressing and very 'lonely' realization– which is why most people deceive themselves out of it. 

Self-deception is the barrier between communication and solidarity. Which is why Leo is bent on waking people up to their own self-deception. Is he actually 'getting through' what he is intending to? Who knows. But is he helping millions of people in his attempt? Crazy Yes. Leo's understandings are so deep, so primal, that even distorting his message will help you. Everything Leo says will help grow you, wake you up– whether you like it or not, realize it or not. 

[Etherial Cat]

11 hours ago, Tim R said:

"There's almost nobody in the world who I can communicate with, that is conscious enough to be able to understand the deepest insights that I've had about reality. And this has presented a problem for me, because in the past I was able to share those, they were at the level of communication, I was able to share those with you. But now I'm getting the point where I can't even share them with you anymore. And lately my insights have become so profound that I started to realize and sort of come to face to face with the prospect that I won't ever be able to share them with any other human in the universe. I try but - and there's different levels of insight that I have - but the highest levels basically are going to be completely unshareable and I've had to resign myself to that."

 

In other words, he says he's going through states of awareness that are so profound that no one can have intellectual intimacy with him anymore. The feeling of loneliness is due to that.

I think this issue is quite common for spiritual teachers. 

[Gesundheit2]

It's just the beginning...

[AdamR95]

How could Leo know how conscious other people are when someone who is highly conscious could act like totaly ordinary man? Someone who is like this can even act like he is low conscious because there is no need to show how conscious he is. That is the reason i take this kind of statements leo makes with a grain of salt. What i take from it is just that he have had much more deeper awakenings that he is ever able to comunicate.

Edited August 1, 2021 by AdamR95

[Gianna]

12 minutes ago, AdamR95 said:

someone who is highly conscious could act like totaly ordinary man

The flipside of this is also true: someone unconscious could sputter Truth, unknowingly. Because in the end, there is no such duality of 'conscious' and 'unconscious' persons. Everyone is conscious even if they are unconscious. Everything spoken is Truth, even if it is distorted. It is just a matter of recognizing it.