Increase in vaccine coercion

[impulse9]

I don't see the world ending over it.

[Parththakkar12]

57 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

And that's why we are fucked.

Unless, you find a way to go completely off-grid. You stop using their money, you grow your own food, you live in an intentional community, you stop watching TV and boom! COVID doesn't exist anymore, all of a sudden.

Think about this - Where did you get the idea that there is such a thing as COVID? If no one on TV scared you about it, would you even 'know' it exists?

Edited August 5, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Recursoinominado]

1 hour ago, impulse9 said:

I don't see the world ending over it.

And that's why we are fucked.

Too many people thinking they are isolated units from society.

"My freedom of being dumb and stubborn over collective health."

You don't take the vaccine, the guy next to you don't, and the next, and the next.

Then we have hundreds of millions of people refusing to take simple measures to end this pandemic.

This will not be over until 95% of people are fully vaccinated.

The governments won't just give up and let stupid people do what they want putting others at risk.

1 hour ago, Parththakkar12 said:

Think about this - Where did you get the idea that there is such a thing as COVID? If no one on TV scared you about it, would you even 'know' it exists?

NO SHIT, SHERLOCK, you are telling me that if other people didn't exist an INFECTIOUS disease wouldn't be a problem? Of course not, but we are not isolated snowflakes, we live in society and we have to act accordingly. 

I got COVID, it was not fun at all, never felt so bad so fast and I probably am in the top 10% of most healthy people in society. If i wasn't, i would be fucked. Also, to this day i don't feel completely fine (9 months later), i suspect i have some sequels from it. 

I know lots of people who got it, some even died.

This is not a conspiracy, this is real.

[Parththakkar12]

20 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

NO SHIT, SHERLOCK, you are telling me that if other people didn't exist an INFECTIOUS disease wouldn't be a problem? Of course not, but we are not isolated snowflakes, we live in society and we have to act accordingly. 

That's not what I said. I meant, the narrative. If the media didn't hype it up, would you even know it exists?

20 minutes ago, Recursoinominado said:

I got COVID, it was not fun at all, never felt so bad so fast and I probably am in the top 10% of most healthy people in society. If i wasn't, i would be fucked. Also, to this day i don't feel completely fine (9 months later), i suspect i have some sequels from it. 

How do you know it was COVID? Who told you that? It's the confirmation-biased medical establishment, right?!

In his video, Deconstructing the myth of science, Part 2, Leo talked about the under-determination problem, in which you can use the same 'facts' and come up with an equally valid theory that's the exact opposite of the one you hold! Science is not exempt from this. The pharma-industry just creates the narrative that helps them profit the most! Marketing 101.

No conspiracy-theories here. Just asking questions and looking at facts about how the mind works! And how philosophy works.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Parththakkar12

[Harlen Kelly]

13 hours ago, Mason Riggle said:

And the fact that someone is against seatbelt mandates, does not make them 'anti-seatbelt'. 

It does not make them 'anti-seatbelt', it makes them irredeemable dullards. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Harlen Kelly]

@Recursoinominado You are wasting your time, it's analogous with trying to explain a religious fundamentalist that the spaghetti monster does not exist, or a trumper that the election was not stolen, or a flat earther that the earth is not flat. Some people are simply psychologically underdeveloped and there is nothing you can do about it. 

 

Edited August 5, 2021 by Harlen Kelly

[Windappreciator]

A vaccine will probably not help for long, because the root of the problem is more deeper than just nature happing randomly.

You guys and humanity in general needs to start rethink their whole life styles and survival agendas.

If you keep ignoring the suffering of others and pertubate the ordinary and usual ways of living it will not end until you give in.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Windappreciator

[BadHippie]

Would be cool if someone could explain to me why it's a good idea to get the shot. 

I am 25 and probably in the top 0,1% of healthy people in Germany.

Here is some stuff I got from my research & experience:

• People in my age have - on average - a 99,98%+ Survival-Rate when catching COVID-19
• I don´t know a single person I consider "living healthy" who got COVID, only people who don´t live healthy
• The PCR-Test wasn´t developed for diagnosing a sickness
• I know a lot of people who got "fucked up" after taking the vaccine, some have been super-sick for more than 1 month. And most of them are getting sick more often now, even after the initial "reaction" is over
• The official death-numbers are super inflated, because they don´t have good epistemology when checking for the cause
• Intelligent and previously prestigious people are talking about the dangers of the vaccine and get censored... If the vaccine is so effective shouldn´t it be easy to debunk those people?
• ...

Here are a few questions that make me warry:

• Why are we using the "incidence-number" (in Germany) even though that number doesn´t say anything about the prevalence of the virus in the population? The incidence can be increased at will by increasing the test-numbers...
• Why aren´t the governments telling people to live a more healthy lifestyle? Instead we get told to stay home, eat chips and be lazy...
• Why is the media trying so hard to frame people as "Conspiracy-Theorists" and using fact-checkers who aren´t checking for facts? 
• Why didn´t they do necropsies in the beginning of the pandemic (in Germany), if it is a new disease and we need to learn about it?
• Why are they identifying a positive PCR-test with being infectious, even though in Germanies own Law for infectious diseases there is a different definition...
• Why are we still doing Lockdowns, when there is no scientific evidence for their use?
• Why is the media using other countries as horror-scenes but isn´t using other countries to push some hope? Fear makes sick, so that´s contra-productive....
• Why are Germany and Austria the only countries with FFP2-Mask Mandates if they are so good?
• Why are they (German government) telling people there won´t be "special rights" for vaccinated people in 2020 and then starts to push exactly those in 2021? Sure politicians always lie, but they contradict their own statements again and again
• Why is there almost no Flu anymore? The governments says it´s because the measures work so well, then in the next sentence they say the measures don´t work well enough... Probably more likely that the PCR-Test shows people who have a Flu as positive
• Why is there no official rule for the "CT-Value" for PCR-Testing (Germany) even after a year if the CT-Value is so important to know if the person is really infectious?
• Why don´t they give the Blueprint to make vaccines to countries like Bangladesh, India, etc. if we need to vaccinate everyone as fast as possible to stop the pandemic? In the beginning of 2020 they even told us we need to go new ways and stop being so egoistic...
• Why are they traumatizing children, even though they are irrelevant for the infections events?
• Why are they vaccinating children, when more children will die from that (if they vaccinate every child in Germany - simple math), that died with COVID-19 since the beginning of the pandemic?
• ...

Edited August 5, 2021 by BadHippie

[Consept]

16 minutes ago, BadHippie said:

Would be cool if someone could explain to me why it's a good idea to get the shot. 

I am 25 and probably in the top 0,1% of healthy people in Germany. 

@Leo Gura

Depends on your outlook, if youre looking at it from an egocentric view as in how what is the cost and benefits to you personally, then potentially theres a slight benefit in that if you do catch it you wont affect you as much, the cost is time and getting a needle, theres also the fear that the vaccine could damage you in some way, although being in the top 0.1% of healthy people Germany that most likely wont be the case for you. We can even level it and say theres no benefit to you and a slight risk. 

Now if we flip it to a world centric view or even a community view then theres the same cost to you as before but the benefit is that youre less likely to catch it and spread it, meaning that potentially less people will die or get sick. The reduce in hospitalisations also mean the healthcare system isnt stretched and so has a positive knock on effect. You maybe healthy but healthy people have been to hospital for this, taking the vaccine reduces the possibility of this happening which means hospitals arent over worked. Another thing is that governments are more than likely to keep other measures and restrictions in place if the vaccine take up isnt where it needs to be so that more lives arent at risk, so not taking it will also prolong these restrictions. 

So its basically what view you take ego or world centric, from the framing of your question it would sound like youre looking for an egocentric reason for taking it and although there is to some extent i dont think its the best reason to take it. 

 

[BadHippie]

Quote

Now if we flip it to a world centric view or even a community view then theres the same cost to you as before but the benefit is that youre less likely to catch it and spread it, meaning that potentially less people will die or get sick. The reduce in hospitalisations also mean the healthcare system isnt stretched and so has a positive knock on effect. You maybe healthy but healthy people have been to hospital for this, taking the vaccine reduces the possibility of this happening which means hospitals arent over worked. Another thing is that governments are more than likely to keep other measures and restrictions in place if the vaccine take up isnt where it needs to be so that more lives arent at risk, so not taking it will also prolong these restrictions. 

That´s the thing I don´t buy into. Because I don´t believe (after my own research) that there are these so called infectious-diseases in the form our culture understands them. 

Just a few days ago the CDC said that people who are VACCINATED and the UNVACCINATED have the same chance for transmitting the Virus, if you are correct with everything. 

Also "healthy people" don´t go into hospital. The hospital is by definition a place for the "unhealthy"... Of course it depends on how you define "healthy people"

Our healthcare-system in Germany has been stretched for years (there have been 100s of experts warning about it over the last few years) and we still closed over 20 hospitals in 2020 and fired a lot of health-care workers. I don´t get why we do that in a pandemic, especially when there are already - officially - not enough beds.

If you are interested about the virus-theory (very short introduction): https://wissenschafftplus.de/uploads/article/Dismantling-the-Virus-Theory.pdf (Of course you still have to check everything for yourself) 

• I went and made out with people who have been very sick (flu, fever, other so called contagious-diseases) - I didn´t get sick even though I made out hard with them... Of course you could say it´s because of my immune-system working well, but officially every immune-system can be overloaded if the viral-load is high enough
• I didn´t do this just once, but many many times over the years. I never get sick, even when being with people who are "contagious"... That´s why I don´t buy into that narrative
• I can explain why some people catch the same "symptoms" after being at a place differently
• ...

Edited August 5, 2021 by BadHippie

[Consept]

14 minutes ago, BadHippie said:

Just a few days ago the CDC said that people who are VACCINATED and the UNVACCINATED have the same chance for transmitting the Virus, if you are correct with everything. 

The CDC specifically says the vaccine reduces risk of spreading the virus - 

"Individual and community-level prevention measures in addition to vaccination have been shown to help reduce the spread of SARS-CoV-2.(163-167)  However, there can be individual and societal costs related to physical distancing, quarantine, school and business closures, and other prevention measures.(168-175)

Modeling studies suggest that adherence to other prevention measures, such as wearing masks and physical distancing, continues to be important in the context of vaccine implementation.(176-184) In one study, complete relaxation of prevention measures for the entire population prior to adequate vaccination coverage (60-80% depending on the population considered) resulted in essentially no reductions in SARS-CoV-2 infections.(178) However, in the context of rapid vaccine implementation, the benefit of non-pharmaceutical interventions decreases: preliminary data from one study found prevention measures in the United States could begin to be relaxed 2-3 months after vaccination began if a rate of 3 million doses administered daily were attained(185). Correspondingly, preliminary data suggest that increasing vaccination rates may allow for the phasing out of some prevention measures as coverage increases.(184) With high vaccine effectiveness and increasing vaccination coverage, preliminary modeling studies conducted prior to emergence of the Delta variant predicted that vaccinated people returning to normal activities will have minimal impact on the course of the pandemic.(185, 186)" https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

 

But looking at a more meta perspective of your question, as i said its an ego-centric question, whats in it for me why should I take it. What im saying is that a world centric view would not look at it in that way. Your research is done to give justification for not taking the vaccine, maybe theres something to it, maybe there a shreds of truth in it but there is also the same and more research on the other side. I imagine you were never for the vaccine from whenever you heard there would be a vaccine therefore your decision was always not to take it and because youre somewhat intelligent, have some kind of scientific argument as to why not. 

If you had a world centric view your thinking would be more along the lines of 'people are suffering as a result of something, countries are completely locked down, the world is suffering is there some small thing i could do to help the situation? Will this small thing have any negative repercussions for me? most likely not ok let me do it'. All this other research and whatnot is just a justification for an egocentric action, which makes sense because not only are you doing the egocentric thing but you also want everyone to agree with that choice and praise you for being smarter than 99% of experts, which is why you spend so much time on research and explaining yourself. 

Im not saying this as a judgement and you are of course free to make an egocentric decision, i probably make loads myself, but at least be honest about it. 

[BadHippie]

@Consept

Sure if you want to interpret it that way I don´t think I decide out of a ego-centric view, but you are free to think so. 

I wish you a nice day 

[Consept]

Just now, BadHippie said:

@Consept

Sure if you want to interpret it that way I don´t think I decide out of a ego-centric view, but you are free to think so. 

I wish you a nice day 

I'm willing to be corrected, could you break down how asking the question - 

 

1 hour ago, BadHippie said:

Would be cool if someone could explain to me why it's a good idea to get the shot. 

I am 25 and probably in the top 0,1% of healthy people in Germany.

Is from a world centric view? 

Again im not judging or arguing im interested in how you see this as not an egocentric position 

[Mason Riggle]

18 minutes ago, Consept said:

If you had a world centric view your thinking would be more along the lines of 'people are suffering as a result of something, countries are completely locked down, the world is suffering is there some small thing i could do to help the situation? Will this small thing have any negative repercussions for me? most likely not ok let me do it'.

What if I simply don't assume humans should survive?  Notice that the sentence 'Humans should survive' is a huge assumption, based on nothing.  Your circle of compassion is too small.  What about the polar bears? And the fish? And the koalas? And the Rhinos? And all of the other species who have suffered at the hands of humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Species_made_extinct_by_human_activities

What if my perspective is that humans are the virus? 


“Our task must be to free ourselves … by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.” - Albert Einstein

 

[BadHippie]

@Consept

Because I don´t think I can give the world my gift if I´m unhealthy / sick. Which the "vaccine" will probably make me.

Also I made a commitment to try and reduce the toxins I take inside as much as possible, even if it´s hard.

Also as Leo pointed out in a post the vaccine isn´t the solution but a disaster (from my point of view), so it would be unwise to take the vaccine, even if you look at it world-centric. 

I am pretty sure all the measures won´t end even if I vaccinate myself, there will never be a 100% vaccination-rate ever. That´s just wishful thinking from people who don´t understand the individuality of people. Sure it´s an illusion in the end (from an absolute point of view), but the beauty of reality means that people can experience the life from a limited / individual point of view.

They simply change the goals for when the measures end. In the beginning it was 3 weeks lockdown to get down the R-number. Then the R-number was down, the measures continued and the goal changed to getting down the "incidence-number". Then that number was down, the goal changed until everyone has the chance to get a vaccine. Than that goal changed until we have "herd-immunity" (for which the WHO changed the definition conveniently, just like they changed the definition of Pandemix in 2009). Now the goal is basically we will have measures until everyone / most of the people are vaccinated. 

Until that is the case we will have a new so-called "virus" and we will start all over again. Until we are pretty much dependent on getting vaccines every few month / or maybe once a year. Which I don´t like the ring of it. 

Not because I don´t like needles, I do test my blood from time to time. But because I don´t want poison inside of me. Of course it depends on what you define as "poison", but for me it´s poison. 

Edited August 5, 2021 by BadHippie

[Mason Riggle]

"

We aren’t better because we want to be. Because the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Because all the do gooders in the world whether they’re doing good for others or doing it for themselves are troublemakers. On the basis of ‘kindly let me help you or you’ll drown’, said the Monkey putting the fish safely up a tree. We white anglo saxon protestants; British, German, American. We have been on a rampage for the past hundred or more years to improve the world. We have given the benefits of our culture, our religion, our technology to everybody except perhaps the Australian aborigines. And we have insisted that they receive the benefits of our culture even our political styles our democracy you better be dead Democratic I will shoot you. And having conferred these blessings all over the place we wonder why everybody hates us. Because sometimes doing good to others and even doing go to oneself is amazingly destructive. Because it’s full of conceit. How do you know what’s good for other people? How do you know what’s good for you? If you say you want to improve. Then you want to know what’s good for you. But obviously you don’t because if you did you would be improved. So we don’t know. It’s like the problem of geneticists, which they face today. I went to a meeting of geneticists not so long ago where they gathered in a group of philosophers and theologians and said Now look here we need help. We now are on the verge of figuring out how to bring in any kind of human character. We would want to have. We give you saints, philosophers, scientists, great politicians, anything you want, just tell us what kind of human beings ought we to breed. 

 

So I said,  ‘How will those of us who are genetically unregenerated make up our minds what genetically generated people might be.?’ Because I’m afraid very much that our selection of virtues may not work. It may be like for example this new kind of high-yield grain which is made and which is becoming ecologically destructive. When we interfere with the processes of nature and breed efficient plants and efficient animals there’s always some way in which we have to pay for it. And I can well see that a eugenically-produced human beings might be dreadful. We could have a plague of virtuous people. Do you realize that? Any animal considered in itself is virtuous it does its thing but in crowds they’re awful. Like a cross crowd of ants, or locusts on the rampage, they’re all perfectly good animals. But it’s just too much I could imagine a perfectly pestiferous mass of a million signs. So I said to these people, ‘Look, if there’s anything you can do, just be sure that a vast variety of human beings is maintained.’ Don’t please bring us down to a few excellent types excellent for what we never know how circumstances are going to change. And how. Our need. For different kinds of people changes. 

 

At one time we may need very individualistic and aggressive people, at another time we may need very co-operative team working people. At another time we may need people who are full of interest in dexterous manipulation of the external world, at another time we may need people who explore into their own psychology and are introspective. There is no knowing but the mall varieties and the mosque ills we have obviously the better. So you see here again the problem comes out in genetics we do not really know how to interfere with the way the world is. The way the world actually is is an enormously complex interrelated organism. The same problem arises in medicine, because the body is a very complexly interrelated organism. And if you look at the body in a superficial way you may see there’s something wrong with it, here’s chicken pox. And the spots that it should come all out all over the place well you might say well spots of that cut them off. So you kill the bug. But then you find you’ve got real problems. Because you have to introduce some bugs to kill the bug, it’s like bringing rabbits into Australia. And that starts going all over the place and getting out of hand. And then you think well now wait a minute, it wasn’t the bugs in the blood there are bugs all over the place. What was wrong with this person that his blood system suddenly became vulnerable to those particular bugs his resistance was in doubt? Therefore what you should have given was not an antibiotic but vitamins. OK so we’re going to build up his resistance but resistance to what. You may build up resistance to this and this and this class of bugs, but then there’s another one that loves that situation it comes right in. See we always look at the human being medically, in bits and pieces, because we have heart specialists, lung specialists, bones specialists, nerve specialists, and so on. And they each see the human being from their point of view there are a few generalists but they realise that human bodies. Complicated that no one mind can understand it. And furthermore, supposing we do succeed in healing all these people of that diseases. What do we then do about the population problem. I mean we’ve stopped cholera, the black bubonic plague, we’re getting the better of tuberculosis, we may fix cancer and heart disease. 

 

Then what will people die of? Well they’ll just go on living. On the enormous quantities of others. Then we have to fix this birthing. Pills for everybody. Then we find one of the effects the side effects of those pills. What are the psychological effects upon men and women of not breeding of children in the usual way? We don’t know. And what seems a good thing today or yesterday like D.D.T. turns out tomorrow to been a disaster. What seemed in the moral and spiritual sphere, to like great virtues in times past are easily seen today as hideous evils, let’s take for example the Inquisition, in its own day among Catholics the Holy Inquisition was regarded. As we’d today regard the practice of psychiatry. You, you see, you feel that in curing the person of cancer almost anything is justified. The most complex operations, the most weird surgery people suspended for days and days on end on the end of tubes with X. ray penetration burning. Or people undergoing shock treatment, people locked in the colorless monotonous corridors of mental institution. In all good faith, they knew that witchcraft and heresy were terrible things. Often plagues imperiling people souls forever and ever. So any means we’re justified. To cure people of heresy. We don’t change. We’re doing the same thing today. But under different names. We can look back at those people and see how evil that was but we can’t see it in ourselves. So therefore, beware of virtue. " - Alan Watts

[Windappreciator]

@BadHippie

Chill down with the paranoia.

Measurements change, because situations are complex.

The government doesn't control the whole universe, so they have no means of 100% determining what is to come next.

They cannot a custom the whole globe according to your fears.

Edited August 5, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Consept]

7 minutes ago, Mason Riggle said:

What if I simply don't assume humans should survive?  Notice that the sentence 'Humans should survive' is a huge assumption, based on nothing.  Your circle of compassion is too small.  What about the polar bears? And the fish? And the koalas? And the Rhinos? And all of the other species who have suffered at the hands of humans.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Species_made_extinct_by_human_activities

What if my perspective is that humans are the virus? 


“Our task must be to free ourselves … by widening our circles of compassion to embrace all living creatures and the whole of nature in its beauty.” - Albert Einstein

 

Its not an either or situation, you can have compassion for both humans and animals. What i was talking about was going from a circle of compassion that only includes yourself to other people. Youre taking it a step further and saying it should also include all living beings, which is fine but you cant paint the egocentric view as caring about every living thing and then conveniently make decisions that only appear to benefit them. 

[BadHippie]

@Windappreciator

Stop assuming I am paranoid I think everything is perfect as it is It´s all happening because it has to happen this way

[Windappreciator]

@BadHippie 

Mhm hm , yeah, sure.