Increase in vaccine coercion

[Loba]

@Opo Nothing super insane, but the law would require you have a vaccine card to go into certain areas that are crowded public spaces, and a mask if you do not have the ability to take the vaccine - i.e. kids, immune compromised.  Kids over 13 would need it for school.  You would be exempt if too young or too sick with ability to socialize but must wear mask to keep yourself and others safe.   If they refused; nothing drastic, you just can't get into certain areas without the vaccine card.

[Carl-Richard]

8 hours ago, impulse9 said:

Your attempts at guilt-shaming won't work on me.

Oh I know.

[Carl-Richard]

15 hours ago, Epikur said:

This forum says your life is an illusion so anti vaxxers are illusion too.  

The Absolute doesn't negate the relative. Don't try it

[BadHippie]

Wow, this thread is crazy... How about doing sensemaking together instead of throwing your own perspectives at each other?

Where did all the "love" go, you people talk about? What about trying to understand the truth in every perspective?

You guys make it look like there is one absolute truth which is relative. How about simply acknowledging that we don´t know shit about this vaccine.

And beside the "absolute perspective" there is no single "true" one. So we need to integrate different perspectives to understand what´s going on more deeply. That doesn´t work if you simply label everyone who has a different opinion as "stupid" or "conspiracy-theorist", that´s simply an ego-defense so that you don´t have to listen to it. 

@Leo Gura How do you expect to understand anything deeply, if you are so lost in the meta-perspectives that you completely overlook mistakes in fundamental epistemology with the details? 

I can really suggest you this book: https://www.amazon.com/Limits-Medicine-Medical-Nemesis-Expropriation/dp/0714529931/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1P7M9D2I9U82J&dchild=1&keywords=ivan+illich+medical+nemesis&qid=1627989902&sprefix=Ivan+Illich+medic%2Caps%2C278&sr=8-1 - maybe it will help you understand why some people are anti-vax and still have good epistemology

 

Edited August 3, 2021 by BadHippie

[Mason Riggle]

Something being missed in all of this, which has nothing to do with being 'anti-vaxx' or 'pro-vaxx', which I think the OP was hinting at, is the counter-intuitive nature of reality.  

The people who are passionate about getting everyone vaccinated (whether rightly so or not) fail to recognize that by trying to 'coerce' people who already don't want the vaccine into getting it, they are shooting themselves in the foot, because of the counter-intuitive nature of reality.  By trying so hard to 'sell' a product, this actually makes buyers wary of the value of the product.   This is just simply psychology. Leo has a whole video about this.   If someone has to try really hard to sell me something, there's a good chance I don't need it.  Nobody has to 'coerce' me to get the things I need.. only the things I don't need. And so naturally, when people who are already skeptical of the vaccine are told that they have to get it, this just becomes more reason for them not to get it. 

Of course it will backfire.  

This vaccine was poorly marketed, and now the marketers are crying, 'why won't people buy this product? doesn't everyone see how much they need it?'.. 

To really get people vaccinated, you need to tell them there's not enough to go around, and only rich people are allowed to have it, and that you probably shouldn't get it because your body isn't strong enough to handle it, and also that you're probably stupid if you do get it..  if you do this, Cletus and Bobby Sue won't be able to squeeze their fat asses out of the single wide fast enough to go get it. 

Edited August 3, 2021 by Mason Riggle

[Carl-Richard]

22 minutes ago, BadHippie said:

Wow, this thread is crazy... How about doing sensemaking together instead of throwing your own perspectives at each other?

Where did all the "love" go, you people talk about? What about trying to understand the truth in every perspective?

You guys make it look like there is one absolute truth which is relative. How about simply acknowledging that we don´t know shit about this vaccine.

And beside the "absolute perspective" there is no single "true" one. So we need to integrate different perspectives to understand what´s going on more deeply. That doesn´t work if you simply label everyone who has a different opinion as "stupid" or "conspiracy-theorist", that´s simply an ego-defense so that you don´t have to listen to it. 

@Leo Gura How do you expect to understand anything deeply, if you are so lost in the meta-perspectives that you completely overlook mistakes in fundamental epistemology with the details? 

I can really suggest you this book: https://www.amazon.com/Limits-Medicine-Medical-Nemesis-Expropriation/dp/0714529931/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1P7M9D2I9U82J&dchild=1&keywords=ivan+illich+medical+nemesis&qid=1627989902&sprefix=Ivan+Illich+medic%2Caps%2C278&sr=8-1 - maybe it will help you understand why some people are anti-vax and still have good epistemology

You could've just left it at this:

 

23 minutes ago, BadHippie said:

 ego-defense

[Opo]

10 hours ago, Loba said:

@Opo Nothing super insane

Idn the Mericans seems crazy to me. 

If it could be done without too much trouble I'd for it.

I'll have to see the results in France. 

[Leo Gura]

3 hours ago, BadHippie said:

@Leo Gura How do you expect to understand anything deeply, if you are so lost in the meta-perspectives that you completely overlook mistakes in fundamental epistemology with the details? 

I can really suggest you this book: https://www.amazon.com/Limits-Medicine-Medical-Nemesis-Expropriation/dp/0714529931/ref=sr_1_1?crid=1P7M9D2I9U82J&dchild=1&keywords=ivan+illich+medical+nemesis&qid=1627989902&sprefix=Ivan+Illich+medic%2Caps%2C278&sr=8-1 - maybe it will help you understand why some people are anti-vax and still have good epistemology

 

Medicine has a bunch of bullshit in it. As does all of science.

But that does not in any way invalidate the Covid vaccine nor does it make anti-vaxxers intelligent.

It's just an example of the misuse of skepticism and a profound misunderstanding of how societies work. It's unintelligent both individually and collectively.

If this is not obvious to you, I don't even know why you follow my work.

I should place a vaccine mandate just for watching my videos, because if you can't clear that bar, nothing else I say will help you.

Deconstructing the mind and society is not a license for stupidity -- which is exactly how many people take it. I am starting to regret even sharing such pearls of wisdom because of how you guys abuse them.

[impulse9]

Neither does it make pro-vaxxers intelligent. Get off your high horse.

[BadHippie]

Honestly feels to me like you lost it Leo. You are so arrogant and overconfident, just because you had a few awakening that you completely forget that you still just have one perspective. 

You seem as if you believe your epistemology is perfect and you don´t make mistakes. You are still human, and humans make mistakes.

YOU DON´T KNOW if the virus-theory is correct.
YOU DON´T KNOW if the vaccine actually stops the "virus".
YOU DON´T KNOW if there will be negative effects in the long-term.

YOU DON´T KNOW shit, yet you talk as if YOU KNOW shit. 

How about re-watching some of your videos, to actually live your own principles again? 

Calling people unintelligent simply because they have a different perspective just shows how myopic you are. Feels like you regressed to an ego-centric world-view.

Like in my eyes you believing this whole "pandemic-narrative" and saying everyone needs to be vaccinated, shows how bad your epistemology is. 
How do you know if your epistemology is bad or mine? Without truly talking to people with a different view? 

Edited August 3, 2021 by BadHippie

[impulse9]

Since you enjoy authority so much. Here's what the former chief scientist and vice president of Pfizer said about Covid vaccines, but I'm sure you're much more qualified to talk about it than him @Leo Gura

And before you go all uppity about me spreading conspiracy theories, I fully acknowledge that a lot of what this dude has said has been invalidated, but that doesn't mean that he doesn't still have decades of experience and what he says shouldn't be thoroughly investigated. Have you investigated? Or have you just taken it on faith that they know what's good for you? See I don't buy that bullshit. And when you call your viewers stupid for questioning the system that is built on lies, then you lose respect very fast. What @BadHippie says may be a bit emotional but he's right. You seem to be suffering from an inflated ego whereby you think you know 100% of the truth. You make mistakes, we all do. Maybe I'm wrong for not trusting the vaccines, or maybe you're wrong about trusting them so blindly and lashing out at people for not sharing your worldview. Which is it? Only time will tell.

Edited August 3, 2021 by impulse9

[AtheisticNonduality]

Quote

Fuck! Fuck! Fuck! Fuck!
Fuck me! Fuck me!
Fuck you! Fuck you!
Fuck everyone! Fuck the church!
Fuck Jesus! Fuck Mary!
Fuck the Jews! Fuck the Buddists!
Fuck the Hindus! Fuck George Bush!
Fuck his ugly wife! Fuck Tipper Gore!
Fuck everyone! Fuck Gorbachev!
Fuck Noriega! Fuck all these assholes!
Fuck you! Fuck me! Fuck all of you!
Stigmata! Stigmata! Stigmata! Stigmata!
They told me nothing but lies!
Lies! Lies! Lies! Lies!

 

[Flowerfaeiry]

@impulse9 Until you've put in as much work as Leo has maybe keep comments like that to reddit. 

[impulse9]

And how the fuck do you know how much work I've put into anything?

And I'm sorry for the F word but Jesus Christ, you claim this is not a cult, well maybe allow actual discourse and disagreement with the dude. I respect Leo as much as the next person but I will not compromise my own integrity and my own thought process just because he claims something. He's fallible, we all are.

Edited August 3, 2021 by impulse9

[Flowerfaeiry]

@impulse9 I'm not asking you compromise your integrity. Making those comments in a space that has made itself clear on the stance of vaccines comes across as foolish. Pictures of quotes, insults and swearing do not come across as intelligent. You are allowed disagreement but that doesn't mean you will be changing minds with it. 

[impulse9]

"Stance of vaccines" oh right, so I'm supposed to just play along and whistle merrily? When all of you decide that jumping off a bridge is your default stance, should I do that as well? And here I thought wisdom is about questioning beliefs.

Quote

doesn't mean you will be changing minds with it.

Good. I do not want to change anyone's mind. Nor do I moralize to anyone about their own decisions as to what they believe is the right course of action. But now focus that same criticism of yours onto Leo and see if it holds too. He's literally called me stupid, and he's called anyone who decides not to get vaccinated stupid as well. Is that supposed to be wise? Is that supposed to be intelligent? Who's trying to change whose mind here? Unbelievable hypocrisy from your part @Flowerfaeiry. And I've been nothing but respectful in this thread for the most part. But even I have limits.

Edited August 3, 2021 by impulse9

[Flowerfaeiry]

@impulse9 nope, you don't have to play along. This is one site on the internet. I didn't mean to upset you and I see how my criticisms came across that way. You're making a bunch of assumptions about people on this forum. Idk what you're trying to get out of arguing vaccines here but that's your choice and I think you should know that it doesn't help the case. 

[impulse9]

The topic is about vaccine coercion, I've simply stated that I do not believe in being forced to put something into my body that I do not willingly agree to. And I agree, I'm mostly wasting time here. Sorry for lashing out at you @Flowerfaeiry.

[Opo]

@impulse9 How would you react if vaccine passports were implemented? 

[impulse9]

I would fake them with pleasure.