Increase in vaccine coercion

[Consept]

@Parththakkar12 @DrewNows

Here's the reality, you can have your completely free world if everyone has transcended survival and has gone on their journey and is basically enlightened or at least at yellow or above on the spiral. Until then 'freedom' is just a belief and paradoxical ideology, covering up for survival. 

Apart from the fact corporations would fully take control of the world without any market regulation, which by the way they'd love so I'm sure they're all for your freedom. But there would just be complete chaos, which is fine but we've already evolved from chaos, so we'd just come back to where we are now. You could make the argument that maybe there's too much control right now, but there's actually less control and more freedom than there ever has been in any human society. So I really rack my brain to think what this idea of freedom is that people have. I think maybe you're thinking of a utopia where everyone is enlightened and understands the universe and consciousness and their own bias' and whatnot, but what you don't see is that this is the path to that, we are on the right path it just takes a very long time. Going off that path just slows things down, it's the same way a dictatorship is on that path and when the people are ready democracy comes in, look at what happened to Iraq when saddam was taken out, did it get better or worse? Its the same with the Western world, when we're ready we will move up 

Edited August 15, 2021 by Consept

[IndiOdyssey]

On 8/1/2021 at 3:53 PM, Leo Gura said:

 

On 8/1/2021 at 3:53 PM, Leo Gura said:

Anyone here spreading covid conspiracies will be banned.

Wow! Just wow!

[Johnny Galt]

FYI - "even if you died of a clear alternate cause, but you had covid at the same time, it's still listed as a covid death"

DR Ngozi Ezike, Public Health Illinois 

Does this not warp our reality of the severity of covid? I can point to two other example of "medical experts", in the states, who state the same as in this video. Shall I share or will people cry "conspiracy"? 

 

Edited August 21, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[ZzzleepingBear]

@Johnny Galt  It is not to far fetched at all to assume that someone that was already in bad health, or had other health issus was passing away earlier as a result of covid. It has been common knowledge from the very beginning that older folks naturally are at a higher risk. That is pretty much what she confirmed in the video, but with other words. A fragile immune system, can shut down in various ways if it is pushed into overdrive from something like covid.

[Johnny Galt]

@ZzzleepingBear Agreed. Covid could, and I imagine would be, a big factor in those situations, and yet to just lump then all under, "death by covid", without mentioning obesity or other underlying conditions as a part of the equation, isn't this misleading? Meaning, the news will continually just state "deaths by covid" without embellishing and disclosing there's more to the picture. 

Essentially, it's hypothetical, but to pass it off as a black and white case, at the extent that it's being done, we present a false translation of reality. Yes? No? 

And again, this is just one video, one example of many...

 

Edited August 22, 2021 by Johnny Galt

[Windappreciator]

@Johnny Galt That would be one reason why world needs to go whole foods vegan, so obesity can be ruled out in most cases.

Edited August 22, 2021 by Windappreciator

[Johnny Galt]

@Windappreciator Transitioning to whole foods and vegan would be amazing. In regards to obesity, I'd say it's more about the garbage put into our food and the excessive processing which is why most men look pregnant - "birthing people"

 

 

[Blackhawk]

After my first dose of Pfizer/Biontech my arm was very sore. But after my second dose (got it yesterday) my arm isn't sore at all. Weird? I think it should have got sore again?

Since the anti-vaxxers are everywhere.. There has been cases where the nurses have switched the vaccine to inoperative saline, and then injected the patients with saline instead of vaccine, against the patients knowledge. So that's a bit on my mind..

Edited August 22, 2021 by Blackhawk

[Carl-Richard]

10 minutes ago, Blackhawk said:

After my first dose of Pfizer/Biontech my arm was very sore. But after my second dose (got it yesterday) my arm isn't sore at all. Weird? I think it should have got sore again?

Did you not feel anything else? I had my second dose 2 days ago and it made me feel a bit ill. Still feel a bit weird.

[Blackhawk]

1 minute ago, Carl-Richard said:

Did you not feel anything else? I had my second dose 2 days ago and it made me feel a bit ill. Still feel a bit weird.

I did get a bit headache and nausea. But sometimes I can get such stuff anyway. But yeah it was probably the vaccine which caused the headache and nausea. So I probably got the real lovely vaccine injected inside me.

[ZzzleepingBear]

1 hour ago, Johnny Galt said:

@ZzzleepingBear Agreed. Covid could, and I imagine would be, a big factor in those situations, and yet to just lump then all under, "death by covid", without mentioning obesity or other underlying conditions as a part of the equation, isn't this misleading? Meaning, the news will continually just state "deaths by covid" without embellishing and disclosing there's more to the picture. 

Essentially, it's hypothetical, but to pass it off as a black and white case, at the extent that it's being done, we present a false translation of reality. Yes? No? 

And again, this is just one video, one example of many...

 

I think it would be hard to know for sure what other underlying conditions it would be that could be the other half of the case for a so called covid death. Death by obesity for example, would probably not fly as an explanation of a cause of death, even though that would be a huge long term contributing factor most likely. I think that covid labled death can be somewhat misleading, but mostly so in individual cases.

One must take into account for general statistics when it comes to large number of people rather than looking to much into unique individual cases.

I think they reason as such, that if a person dies who had covid, chances are that covid could be the actual tipping point despite underlying conditions. Because underlying health conditions are in general also long term conditions, as opposed to covid that speed up the whole process to a earlier death. So it's probably not as black and white as one may initially think.

Also, the video you provided is done with intention to inform the public on how they count, so it's quite transparent information that is easy for anyone to digest.

[Johnny Galt]

@ZzzleepingBear

23 minutes ago, ZzzleepingBear said:

Also, the video you provided is done with intention to inform the public on how they count, so it's quite transparent information that is easy for anyone to digest.

Yes, it was transparent. But what is the public generally being fed? through the air waves and news reports? Morning to night?

It's usually the black and white, "these are the cases, and these are the deaths". In this, the public is in fear and they can become more easily persuaded to partake in extreme measure, and yet for their safety. For our safety, where are authorities experts, in regards to physical, mental, and emotional well being? What are all the ways in which we can nurture and build ourselves to be most optimal and therefore resilient, for our safety? - shouldn't there be a focus on this too? 

Consider Australia and New Zealand and the control and enforcement measures of late. Look at there cases and deaths count, with the previous posts in mind. Note that these stats apply to back when this all started, 17/18 months, not just 12 months. 

[7thLetter]

My province in Canada just announced a vaccine passport mandate that requires us to show proof of vaccination to have access to certain non-essential services.

People are so outraged by this I don't really understand why.

The amount of vaccine hesitancy out there somewhat leaves me doubtful, but I might as well get it anyway to get this thing over with, I'll probably go with Moderna.

The odd thing I've noticed though with anti-vaxxers is that they often talk down on the vaccine but they never really mention anything about the virus? Do they just believe that covid doesn't exist and the government is just pushing a vaccine onto us for no reason? Do they believe that any potential risks of the vaccine outweighs the risks of the virus?

And why do they all say the same exact things? It's like one person spread his own beliefs to thousands or millions of other people like a religious cult. I always hear people ask, "Why was it created so quickly" "If your vaccine or mask works why do you care about others who haven't got a mask or vaccine" "Ivermectin, ivermectin, ivermectin!" "Why does the government push it onto us so much" "A pandemic with a virus so serious that you need to take a test to know if you got it." And blah blah blah.

I'm tired of all this.

[BadHippie]

@7thLetter I could say the same to all the people taking the vaccine. All the same talk for all the people who take the vaccine. I´m tired of it at as well... At least the people who are against the vaccine, don´t try to force their view onto other people. At least here in Germany. They just want to decide on their own what´s good for them. 

[7thLetter]

@BadHippie I think you're confusing me as a pro-vaxxer.

My post was created to express uncertainty around the vaccine. I'm currently unvaccinated and I'm somewhere in the middle, but if the government is going to mandate it then fine I'll probably take it. But then you got all these people who are outraged with these vaccine passports which reinforces the doubts I have about the vaccine.

2 hours ago, BadHippie said:

At least the people who are against the vaccine, don´t try to force their view onto other people.

And its funny you say this, because from what I've seen yes they actually DO force their views onto others. They do it directly and indirectly by creating protests, writing all over the Youtube comments, Instagram comments, and creating all sorts of anti-vaxx videos like "DOCTOR WITH PH.D GOES VIRAL ABOUT THE RISK OF VACCINATION!!!!"

As someone who is neither pro or anti-vaxx, anti-vaxx views have been indirectly pushed onto me even more than pro-vaxx views. From what it seems, you're mainly talking about your own personal experience here because you're saying that they don't but I say they actually do. But I mean you did mention, "At least here in Germany" so fair enough.

Plus anti-vaxxers always say "they keep pushing it they keep pushing it!" We're in a pandemic, of course the pro-vaxxers are going try to push the vaxx because that's how we're supposed to fight the virus right? If your experience tells me that anti-vaxxers don't push their views onto others then of course, it's because it doesn't benefit them for others not to take the vaccine. But for pro-vaxxers it does benefit them for others to take the vaccine, to beat the pandemic so we can get this over with, right? That's why they would push it.

But even with this they become all stubborn and say things like "If your vaccine works why should I get it" "My body my choice!" And it becomes this back and forth that creates a complete shit show.

You're telling me anti-vaxxers aren't pushing their views onto others yet they're engaging in anti vs pro-vaxx debates all over the internet. Anti-vaxxers disliking all the vaccine videos, filling the comments up with anti-vaxx views. And you also have all these conspiracy theorists trying to 'warn' everyone about the vaccine telling us it was created by Bill Gates and he wants to inject microchips in us, or it'll kill us in 3-5 years, or the government is using it for mind control, and on and on and on.

My mind is filled with all these anti-vaxx views because I see them more often. With all their information that they've spread, at this point I probably could convince you that I'm anti-vaxx, but I'm not.

And if you tell me you're not anti-vaxx you're just 'anti covid vaxx', I say that's honestly the same thing. People always say that one too, "I'm not anti-vaxx I'm anti just this one vaxx! Because um you know its different and idk why the government keeps pushing it on us" "I don't know what's in it, it was created to quickly"

Edit: And I don't think the amount of anti covid vaxxers out there in the world right now wouldn't have been possible if they didn't push their views onto others. All those protesters out on the streets had to get their information from somewhere, where? Maybe they got their information from Facebook or the Youtube comments, a video, or from social media. I doubt they did their own research, they just hear things from other people and take it as truth, then this information spreads like wildfire. What about all the Bill Gates vaccine 5G conspiracy theorists, did they not push their views onto other people? Did they all individually coincidentally come to the same conclusion that Bill Gates wants to inject people with microchips and then later found out that other people came to the same conclusion so they created a Facebook group and started protesting?

Edited August 24, 2021 by 7thLetter

[Consept]

@7thLetter Some really interesting points there and its true why cant someone be anti-vaxx and just not post their views everywhere? Youre not being forced, you dont have to take it, you may have restrictions but that would still be the case whether you made noise about it or not, so that is the choice. So it does seem from day one, that its been about 'liberating the sheep' and 'telling your truth'. Whats strange is that, yes you can have your point of view but youd be lying, or at the very least exaggerating to say you know 100% your view is correct (even scientists wouldnt say that), when i ask people 'what would your way out of the pandemic be?', the only response i get is 'work on your immune system, some people will die but people die anyway'. Essentially theyre saying do nothing, which even if they are right somehow, they dont know that for sure and the risk of them being wrong could literally be catastrophic for the world.  

But either way i dont get this thing of making noise about it and convincing others and shaming the 'sheep' if its just about a personal decision, there is something more to it. 

 

[Epikur]

36 minutes ago, Consept said:

@7thLetter Some really interesting points there and its true why cant someone be anti-vaxx and just not post their views everywhere? Youre not being forced, you dont have to take it, you may have restrictions but that would still be the case whether you made noise about it or not, so that is the choice. So it does seem from day one, that its been about 'liberating the sheep' and 'telling your truth'. Whats strange is that, yes you can have your point of view but youd be lying, or at the very least exaggerating to say you know 100% your view is correct (even scientists wouldnt say that), when i ask people 'what would your way out of the pandemic be?', the only response i get is 'work on your immune system, some people will die but people die anyway'. Essentially theyre saying do nothing, which even if they are right somehow, they dont know that for sure and the risk of them being wrong could literally be catastrophic for the world.  

But either way i dont get this thing of making noise about it and convincing others and shaming the 'sheep' if its just about a personal decision, there is something more to it. 

 

Because minorities are extreme and they lead the decision. On both sides the extremes push. If one extreme would not push the other side would be successful with it's extreme positions. Like the fights between the right and the left in the pas in Europe and now. The stronger one on the street won.

[7thLetter]

On 8/24/2021 at 6:53 AM, Consept said:

Youre not being forced, you dont have to take it, you may have restrictions but that would still be the case whether you made noise about it or not, so that is the choice.

100%

For the most part in first-world countries, vaccine mandates only restrict the unvaccinated from entering non-essential businesses such as restaurants, gyms, hotels, etc. Non-essential, yet the unvaccinated go on to complain about their freedom or how they're being forced or "my body my choice!" Nobody has to enter a restaurant, go eat at home. There's a reason why these businesses are deemed non-essential.

We're lucky we're not a third-world country like the Philippines. I heard that the President in the Philippines threatens to jail those who refuse to get vaccinated, they're not even allowed to leave their house if that's their decision. Now THAT'S coercion. Yet everyone here in first-world countries cry about not being able to sit in a restaurant where they overcharge you for a piece of bread.

And definitely, speaking up or protesting isn't really going to do anything. "OMG I'm going to fight for my freedom, we will not comply!" The government doesn't give a shit, the government understands the seriousness of this situation more than some random citizen on the streets. The government will do what they believe is necessary to handle the set of challenges that they've been given. Period. Anyone can try to twist it or create all sorts of conspiracy theories about their intentions all they want but at the end of the day that's all just speculation and the government is just doing its job.

If people want to complain then they should just start their own country or move into outer space, maybe Jeff Bezos or Elon Musk will have a place to put them in the near-future.

People are just so entitled and self-centered.

On 8/24/2021 at 6:53 AM, Consept said:

when i ask people 'what would your way out of the pandemic be?', the only response i get is 'work on your immune system, some people will die but people die anyway'. Essentially theyre saying do nothing, which even if they are right somehow, they dont know that for sure and the risk of them being wrong could literally be catastrophic for the world. 

They have no real solutions when you question them, all they have is their selfish opinions. I'm pretty sure working on our own health isn't going to help reduce the spread of the virus. And what about all the unhealthy overweight people who smoke? Should we just tell them to go work on their health and problem solved, pandemic over?

Another thing I keep hearing from anti-vaxxers is, "The government doesn't care about our health, if they did then they would shut down McDonalds or ban smoking." How the hell does that have to do anything with the pandemic? "They keep promoting vaccines but they never promote healthy lifestyles like fitness or eating healthy."

It's not exactly about our health per se, its about containing and mitigating the effects of a freaking virus.

On 8/24/2021 at 6:53 AM, Consept said:

 

But either way i dont get this thing of making noise about it and convincing others and shaming the 'sheep' if its just about a personal decision, there is something more to it. 

I often hear them talking about how they're "woke" and how more people have to "wake up." So maybe that's what it's about. They're trying to "wake" people up. These are the types of people who believe in conspiracy theories and start to believe they're all spiritual and woke. And then more people start to catch on and it looks like enlightenment gone mainstream, a bunch of people who hear cool ideas and are all of a sudden superior to others. At this pace if we keep spreading these same ideas we'll have a new religion.

I just realized something, maybe this is how anarchy comes about. Keep opposing the government then maybe everyone will get what they've asked for, which will then turn into complete chaos.

Edited August 27, 2021 by 7thLetter

[Consept]

On 27/08/2021 at 7:50 AM, 7thLetter said:

I just realized something, maybe this is how anarchy comes about. Keep opposing the government then maybe everyone will get what they've asked for, which will then turn into complete chaos.

I had this thought as well. Anarchy must come from a complete distrust of the government, which in some cases is valid, probably even in most cases. But if we look at this situation, its not a distrust in this government per se its more a distrust of any organising body and an idealised vision of 'freedom'. What they dont seem to realise is that without any organising body the most powerful will rise up and organise it themselves, most likely a red leader (look at what happened in Afgahnistan). So i think this misunderstanding of what liberation is would be the cause of some sort of anarchy which no one will end up being happy with. There needs to be an understanding that freedom has to be built on some kind of organisation. I think higher levels of the spiral will understand this and within that you get real freedom. Lower levels or those that misunderstand this will perpetually live in fear and seek liberation, most likely setting humans back even further. 

This isnt to say that the government currently is amazing but we can safely say its better than the tyrants and kings of previous. If there has been improvement then there is still work to do of course but it is getting better. 

[Blackhawk]

To anti-vaxxers and vaccine-hesitant people: Watch this from 15:03 to 17:28, and from 29:05 to pretty much the end. 

 

Edited September 1, 2021 by Blackhawk